Chief Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 The National Guard & military should have been in New Orleans by Wednesday at the latest. You mean to tell me the government can send troops into Iraq to battle Al-Qaida and other terrorists but they can't send them into New Orleans to take care of a few thugs with guns. The excuses I heard were flimsy to say the least. The fact of the matter is that these were poor African-Americans and the government sat on their hands while thousands died. ← Yep, totally agree. The Govt of Louisiana failed their people and they need to be looked at long and hard for these errors...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigted Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 Hey reborn2reign I thought you were a Public Enemy fan, they said: 'Let's Get Bush out of the f****n' office' 15 years ago and Will backed them up on that since JJFP and Public Enemy toured together on and off from '88-91. So it wouldn't surprise me if Will spoke out and said the same thing that Kanye said, so if he did would you stop listening to Will for that? I'm just curious to know and yes like Turntable said the world's been hating on Bush ever since he was elected to office the 1st time 4 years ago, the general thought of America being a major power has gone down ever since he become president. Why are you hating on me anyway reborn2reign? Damn it's just a discussion, if we can't have a mature discussion without offending each other then I won't post here that much anymore. I thought we were all intelligent people here, I honestly don't get what's the difference between saying something on wax or on national television it's just expressing an opinion, everybody else is speaking too so I don't understand why can't somebody from the hip-hop community say something? 98% of the hip-hop community including Will would agree with me on that one: found is when you bleed hard in the mic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WesSyde Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 Hey reborn2reign I thought you were a Public Enemy fan, they said: 'Let's Get Bush out of the f****n' office' 15 years ago and Will backed them up on that since JJFP and Public Enemy toured together on and off from '88-91. So it wouldn't surprise me if Will spoke out and said the same thing that Kanye said, so if he did would you stop listening to Will for that? I'm just curious to know and yes like Turntable said the world's been hating on Bush ever since he was elected to office the 1st time 4 years ago, the general thought of America being a major power has gone down ever since he become president. Why are you hating on me anyway reborn2reign? Damn it's just a discussion, if we can't have a mature discussion without offending each other then I won't post here that much anymore. I thought we were all intelligent people here, I honestly don't get what's the difference between saying something on wax or on national television it's just expressing an opinion, everybody else is speaking too so I don't understand why can't somebody from the hip-hop community say something? 98% of the hip-hop community including Will would agree with me on that one: found is when you bleed hard in the mic! ← i dunno if u'd call me a public enemy fan. i like a few of their tracks and i got their Greatest Hits album and only listened to a few tracks from it. i didn't know that they hated Bush nor did i know that Will backed them up. if u have an interview where Will backs them up or another source it'd be cool if u posted it. first of all, Will wouldn't say what Kanye did. Will is outspoken, but he's careful to choose his words. if he did say what Kanye said, he wouldn't say something like "Bush dosn't care about blacks". i think he'd choose more careful words so as not to cause as much controversey. and yes, i'd still listen to Will cuz he's my favorite rapper. my thing with Kanye is that i've never particularly liked him as a rapper and i'm not that satisfied with his beats. then when he says something i disagree with i'm even more dissatisfied with him. but the thing is, i never liked Kanye in the first place. i love Will tho, if he did say somethin like that i'm positive he'd choose a less controversial way to say it and even if he did say exactly what Kanye said, that wouldn't change my view of his music. is that clear enough? do u understand my position now? the only reason i'm hating on u is cuz right now i'm the only one that's got the balls to say "Ted, ur posts are getting damn repititve sometimes and i wish u could have a conversation without mentioning Chuck D". i wish u could make more posts like the one u just did. but it's like when i come on this board and i read 5+ posts every day where u mention the same things it gets annoying and the ignore feature on the board won't work for me. i'm not getting offended here so keep them comin big boy and if i've offended u then i'm sorry. :sorry: i think this is a mature discussion too, it's just that we sometimes get carried away. compare this to the WS.com board and i'd say this is pretty mature. if there's sometime immature about my posts please let me know what they are. have a good day, peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxFly Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 About the looting: Dawg your familys dying, what u gon do when the goverment ain't there for u? HUH? U can stand still and not go to the grocerystore and steal some food? Cause it's wrong? Ain't it wrong for your baby do die? Ain't it wrong that the goverment instead of protecting and helping NO after all the warnings the goverment still, still cut back on the funds of hurricane preparations? Cause they need to balance their budget cause of a war without a reason!? I AIN'T seen ONE, ONE picture of a guy with a TV or DVD. I only seen people with food and diapers and soap. So people dying, crying, starvin ain't worth the effort to react and put the military in, BUT when stores are getting robbed we gon give the army permission to shoot and kill? WHERE'S THE LOGICS? Dawg, my family's dying, the government's not there for me, why am I breaking into people's home to "find" valuables and why am I breaking into electronics stores to "find" electronics. What do I need with those things. 80% of my city is underwater and there is little electricity... If I care about my family so much, why am I and my friends commiting carjackings, shooting at people and raping little girls... There is absolutely NO excuse. If you're looking for food, look for food. Officials have opened up supermarkets and grocery stores so that people can get food. They've asked people to limit themselves to approximately 50 dollars worth of food so that everyone who comes can get something. This is on the honor system. I don't consider taking food at a time like this looting, regardless of what the media calls it and regardless of whether the government has sanctioned it or not. But why are people breaking into people's cars looking for "food." Why are people breaking into people's homes looking for "food" and walking out with valuables. Are the people raping little girls looking for "food" too? Are the televisions and dvd players THAT I HAVE SEEN BEING CARRIED OUT OF STORES edible... Be sensible. Here's a quote... The desperate efforts to impose some sense of order amid the chaos were further hampered by outbreaks of looting, particularly in New Orleans where one Wal-Mart store was ransacked with its whole collection of weapons taken. "There are gangs of armed men in the city moving around the city," said Terry Ebbert, the city's homeland security chief. Here are two links for you if you think this is a joke...Looting More Looting About the time to say it: Whenever something radical in the society or a huge discussion starts, there is ONE man,ONE woman that takes the lead ans says something. It's worth the effort cause somethign needs to happen, something needs to change. Any and all leaders need to employ wisdom in their decisions. A leader should know when and where to say what they need to say. It is an intrinsic facet of being a leader, good judgement. Kanye exibited bad judgement when he said what he said at the benefit concert. At a time where he should have been trying to garner funds to help survivors of the tragedy and to create unity, he only served to create controversy and quite likely offend and turn off a number of potential donors. He said that Georges Bush doesn't like black people, however, as many have noted on various television and radio broadcasts, FEMA, the Federal Emergency Managemnet Agency should bare the blunt of the blame for the disorganized way the relief efforts were initially carried out. Not only did Kanye address the issue at the wrong time and place, but he largely misdirected misdirected his criticism. Some leader... About people being dumb for not evacuating: It's easy to say that when u got cash and live in a house right? Image u got no cash, 4 kids and no car. There weren't busses near to able to pick up all the residents. THAT'S THE GOVERMENST responsibilty. People can't just pick up and leave like that, it isn't so easy to get a ride when everybody just wants to get out as fast as possible. Don't be arrogant, u know u can't just diss people like that. What about the people going to the superdome expecting to be rescued after the stormn but had to wait 4 days without food, you can't expect all people to say sharp at a sitaution like that. That's not my argument, so I'll let the person who that is addressed to respond. About racism and blacks not getting evacuated I hate Bush from the deepest part of my heart, but I don't think he's a racist. BUT, BUT i actually do think he's raised in a racist or atleast discriminating enviroment, his dad planted Crack in the hood to control the rising black people. He's grand, grand father's probably a ****ing redneck texas KKK. BUT i don't think bush thought that he could **** the black people when he didn't react to the warnings and evacuation. I just belive the dude's a idiot and is infected with sub-counscious racism just like 20-30% of white america. Wow... Bush's father planted crack in the hood to control the rising black people? Crack came out in 1984... Bush's father became president in 1989.... He was vice-president from 1981-1989... Since the vice-president answers directly to the president, you're basically saying that Ronald Reagan is responsible for putting crack in the hood. I'm not going to even try to tell you how ludicrous and ignorant that is... Everything you said in this section of your post is speculation and you personal feelings... Nothing based in fact... However, your "leader" Kanye said that Bush doesn't like black people; just another way of saying that Bush is racist... Yet you dont think Bush is a racist, but you support Kanye's statement anyway even though you don't agree with it... This is why hip hop is confused... people don't know where they stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxFly Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 (edited) Will would've said the same thing if he was there too ← You don't know that do you... And on the off chance that Will would say the same thing... "Bush doesn't care about black people," he'd be wrong to say it at the benefit concert too, and I'd be just as vehement on the issue. Regardless of who it is, it was still the wrong time and place to say what Kanye said. Edited September 4, 2005 by MaxFly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WesSyde Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 Will would've said the same thing if he was there too ← You don't know that do you... And on the off chance that Will would say the same thing... "Bush doesn't like black people," he'd be wrong to say it at the benefit concert too, and I'd be just as vehement on the issue. Regardless of who it is, it was still the wrong time and place to say what Kanye said. ← :word: like i said above, i'd feel the same way as i do now. i don't get why you know that Will would say that tho? what's ur source? speculation doesn't account for anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigted Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 Hey reborn2reign did u watch the VH1 special about the 25 years of hip-hop? Will said that Public Enemy represents the thoughts of how black people feel and that they don't deserve so much criticism about what they say in their songs, if you heard some of their songs you'd know that they criticized Bush quite a few times. The truth is that the government ignores black people in society the media doesn't wanna hear that but it's true, if Bush really had heart he'd respond to what Kanye West said and say that he does care about black people, I'm done posting and I'm sorry I piss you off so much, peace! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilsJim89 Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 I'm with my boys Wes and Max on this one. Kanye said the wrong thing at the wrong place and time. Yo, now how many times were all of those people down there warned about this?! How freakin' ignorant do you have to be Ted to not get up and leave? Again its Catergory 5!!! The strongest freakin' hurricane! Bush does care about black people but this is a natural diesater, not a rally in DC for Equal Rights. Yes, i said it. I ain't a racist but you make it seem like thats this isnt a hurricane, that its a battle of human races. How is not stealing/looting/raping WRONG TED? Explain that! Its a battle of survival yes but you know what? Everyone should be helping each other, plain and simple and all those criminals down there doing all that crime is purely selfish and wrong. No matter what the hell your color is, white/black, anything thats stealing/looting/raping...etc its all wrong and everyone should come together. Kanye West should shut the hell up. And please Ted stop making references to Will, you do not speak for Will and he has nothing to do with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxFly Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 I don't understand how the hell you, Jim, and Max could complain about the hip-hop scene right now for meaningless songs and then turn around and criticise Kanye for saying that Bush needs to pay attention to black people, I don't care who said it I applaud anybody that stands up for what they believe in, damn y'all might as well listen to that commercial crap if y'all feel that way, this is hip-hop, music about life and that's how we express ourselves. As a fan of hip-hop I'm waiting for the day that a positive rapper could have the highest selling album of the year, it'd open the doors for more conscious rappers to come on the scene, what Kanye said hopefully increases his sales, so maybe they'll give Will Smith, Common, and Nas more of a chance too, somebody has to step and say something, hip-hop needs leadership, and if you don't believe Will wouldn't say anything, you obviously haven't listened to "Lost and Found" in a while, he ain't no Uncle Tom! ← Ted, what I don't understand is how you can ignore what is right in front of you. Does Kanye have to right to speak up for what he believes in. Yes... Did he have the right to say what he said at the benefit concert... Yes... Kanye could have called all of the white people in the world racist. He could have insulted everyone in the federal government. He could have yelled... He had the right to do all of those things... The problem is that in exercising his rights, he exibited poor judgement. How are you supposed to create unity at an event that is devoted to creating unity while at the same time creating controversy... What's more, specifically, he said that Georges Bush doesn't like black people... We're so worried about Kanye having the freedom to exercise his rights, we don't care if what he said is ignorant or not? People are being sent down to shoot people? Is Kanye daft? Troops are being sent down to reestablish order in the midst of violence and disorder, not for the purpose of shooting people... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9063708/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schnazz Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 What's more, specifically, he said that Georges Bush doesn't like black people... People are being sent down to shoot people? Is Kanye daft? Troops are being sent down to reestablish order in the midst of violence and disorder, not for the purpose of shooting people... ← They reportedly have orders to shoot: "The soldiers, some back from Iraq, have orders to shoot to kill looters and gunmen. There are now 30,000 national guard troops and 3,000 regular soldiers on the US Gulf coast." http://www.guardian.co.uk/katrina/story/0,...1561561,00.html Yea, shoot looters and gunmen, but what makes a looter? Some cat with some soda? (such as that yahoo article) And Kanye didn't say that "Georges Bush doesn't like black people" He said "George Bush doesn't care about black people." according to the original article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schnazz Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 (edited) In fact, I'm watching CNN right now, and they are discussing the race issue and the response issue this very second... ← Roughly 50% of the US gets their news not from CNN or MSNBC, but local stations, specifically the nightly news. (hence my statements about the difference between IN news and MA news) And yes, after Kanye's statements I've seen discussion of race and economic factors. Edited September 4, 2005 by Schnazz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxFly Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 (edited) Maxfly: Why don't u just realize that when it's tensions like this in the society they need to get realesed and discussed. Kanye did that, he spoke for alot of people. If they don't have their feelings out it'll get nasty, remember rodney king? There weren't any shows like this at that moment and people trying to critizice the police were either radical blacks or idiots. There were vary few normal people speaking their mind. They got the oppurtunity now and now someone said what alot of people feel, hopefully there'll be a nice debate in the media about this now. I don't see why it's wrong to do it at a benefit concert, cause he also said: "The red cross is doing all they can". Come on, don't be naive, I really, really hope will would't read from a transscript. I remember after 9/11 he spoke about people need to chill down with violence against muslims. ← Frenetic: Why can't you realize that it is not always appropriate to speak you mind when you feel the need to. Issues like the one Kanye addressed need to be addressed with tact and grace... not accusations and criticisms on national television. He said that troops are going down to Louisiana to shoot people, however anyone who is unbias can see that they are going down there with the intent of reestablishing order and to save lives... He said that Bush doesn't care about black people, as close to calling him racist as you can get. Moreover, he stated it as fact rather than as his opinion. Can you not understand how ignorant that is? If he wants to criticize someone, he should have done his research and criticized FEMA or the government officials in Louisiana... True leaders try to be informed before they run their mouths... Edited September 4, 2005 by MaxFly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schnazz Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 If he wants to criticize someone, he should have done his research and criticized FEMA or the government officials in Louisiana... True leaders try to be informed before they run their mouths... ← And true leaders take responsability for the people under them. Bush is the president. I would imagine that if he called FEMA and said "Fix this, now!" things would be very different. It doesn't really matter if he has the authority to do something, if he has the influence to make things happen. But he had a guitar to receive, or some such thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxFly Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 In fact, I'm watching CNN right now, and they are discussing the race issue and the response issue this very second... ← Roughly 50% of the US gets their news not from CNN or MSNBC, but local stations, specifically the nightly news. (hence my statements about the difference between IN news and MA news) And yes, after Kanye's statements I've seen discussion of race and economic factors. ← And how many of those that are having these discussions have noted that Kanye West is the reason these issues are being addressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxFly Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 What's more, specifically, he said that Georges Bush doesn't like black people... People are being sent down to shoot people? Is Kanye daft? Troops are being sent down to reestablish order in the midst of violence and disorder, not for the purpose of shooting people... ← They reportedly have orders to shoot: "The soldiers, some back from Iraq, have orders to shoot to kill looters and gunmen. There are now 30,000 national guard troops and 3,000 regular soldiers on the US Gulf coast." http://www.guardian.co.uk/katrina/story/0,...1561561,00.html Yea, shoot looters and gunmen, but what makes a looter? Some cat with some soda? (such as that yahoo article) And Kanye didn't say that "Georges Bush doesn't like black people" He said "George Bush doesn't care about black people." according to the original article. ← So troops should be told not to shoot? Let crime run rampant? Let those who raided the gun shops and the gun section at the Walmart have their way? Don't worry about the fact that these young men are raping people or shooting at them? Let's be serious. Troops haven't been ordered to shoot at people taking soda... They've been told to reestablish order and to stop crime, shoot if they have to, all in an attempt to make the rescue efforts in Louisiana smoother and easier for surviviors and for those aiding in the relief efforts. People are shooting at rescue helicopters... what would you do? The police shot and killed 5 gunmen today who fired at navy core of engineer workers... You have to understand that these troops are necessary... It would be interesting to find out what Kanye has to say to these people shooting at rescue workers... He seems to be harsh on those who are trying to help and silent on those who are hindering the efforts. Yes, you're right. Kanye said that Bush doesn't care about black people. My mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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