Game changing albums

[bigted]

Hey Ted, how did JJ/FP change the game?  I think that Raising Hell changed the game massively by dramatically increasing raps fan base and significantly raising the bar for production value.  The Chronic did the same thing as well as spawned a massive wave of gangsta rap.  When I originally said these two are two of the major game changers, they REALLY changed rap.  JJ/FP won the first grammy, but do you think that had as significant of an impact?  How else did they change rap?

Edit:

Not trying to jump on the contraversy band wagon, I'm just curious as to what your rational is. :)

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JJFP helped hip-hop be more acceptable to the masses the same way that Run-DMC, Rakim, and LL have before him who all took it further than Sugarhill Gang and Kurtis Blow, and JJFP took it further than all of them, I mean if they didn't change the game that means the ones you mention that came after them didn't change the game either, commercial rap fans act like Dr. Dre was the pioneer of hip-hop and nobody came before him. "Homebase" sold basically 3X platinum as much as "The Chronic" did too btw, "Summertime" is as big of a hip-hop classic as "Ain't Nothin' But A 'G' Thing", that did impact the industry, we're talking about the industry here right? We're not talkin' about who has most street cred like I said earlier, we're talking about who has impacted the public the most, I'm sorry but as much as I like KRS-ONE he hasn't really impacted the public that much but he has a lot of street credability, Nas is the same way, so is Tribe Called Quest, they never really had huge commercial success that their peers have had but we're talkin' about impacting the industry. I was 3-years old in '88 so all u ol' school peeps like AJ, Tim, 3cookies, and Schnazz should know did they sell "He's The DJ, I'm The Rapper" as a 2-cassette set? The media says it was the 1st double LP in hip-hop, maybe they just sell it as a single disc in recent years, I just got it a few years ago. btw, like fuq said female rappers don't count, u don't think Salt-Pepa, Queen Latifah, or MC Lyte had any impact? I think Eminem is the one that ruined the state of hip-hop, basically every commercial rapper that came out after him has been polluting the airwaves with meaningless songs. "Willenium" sold as much as "Slim Shady LP" too so it had to make some sorta impact! :word: btw, Turntable why'd u think LL's "Radio" was a game changing album? The only reason why I'd think so is that it also helped more people get into hip-hop just like JJFP did, NWA did, Rakim did, Public Enemy did, Run-Dmc, Salt-N-Pepa did, and MC Hammer did, it was a collective effort in the golden era and JJFP was a major part of it too, selling 1 or 2 million back then is like selling 10 million now so yes they did change the game, all of them as a collective effort, everybody since then sorta repeats what they've done, a couple other mcs that were under the radar at that time like Kool G Rap and Scarface were also a major influence on today's rappers but they never impacted the industry.

Edited September 2, 2005 by bigted

[fan 4ever]

why bother explaining somethin??? :shrug:

[bigted]

Here's Questlove's quote from the August 2003 issue of VIBE with Ludacris on the cover, he's old enough to know that "He's The DJ, I'm The Rapper" was a double album :stickpoke: :

"Man I can't remember a summer in which I copped so many classics in a 12-week period. How many times did we rewind Public Enemy's 'Night Of The Living Baseheads'? The music that summer was jaw dropping. Will Smith and Jazzy Jeff did Philly proud by dropping a double album full of wit, skits, and turntable genius. And I ain't even gonna start on NWA."

The truth is if it wasn't for everyone back then in the golden era the hip-hop industry wouldn't be where it is today, it was a collection of albums that changed the game whether you hate those albums or love them, "He's The DJ..." is the one album that impacted the most in JJFP's career, you could argue that "Code Red" and "Lost and Found" might be better but they didn't have that type of impact for JJFP, it was the one album that started their careers and boosted hip-hop to a higher level at the same time, everyone had their own styles too, hip-hop is too one dimensional now so the game now is changed for the worst, "The Chronic" was the beginning of the demise when it comes to hip-hop creativity, it's the last original one in my opinion, sure there's been classics since but not really original anymore.

Edited September 2, 2005 by bigted

[mfuqua23]

I am getting so feed up and frustrated with you guys.

To Turntable, if you want to know why "He's The DJ, is a game changer. I explained it back a page. About 4 or 5 people told you it was a "double album". I told you why it is a game changer. Plain and simple, it made work ethic more. After that, what they did wouldn't be a "double album" by today's standards. Now a double album is two cds. U got me?

It is amazing me how some you can talk up a bunch of real good points, but the solid points I'm making with what (and I say) little that I know isn't registering with y'all.

And ted, I wasn't saying that female rappers don't count for such a topic. I just amazed at how none of us can say they stood out for a "Game Changing" album. There probably is a female rapper that did a big thing to get the likes of MC Lyte and Queen Latifah started, but she's jsut overlooked. Probably someone we may not recognize if we saw the name. I know there's gotta be some Hip Hop facts left out that arent majorly known.

[Schnazz]

should know did they sell "He's The DJ, I'm The Rapper" as a 2-cassette set? The media says it was the 1st double LP in hip-hop,

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I'm pretty sure that it was a single cassette. I got mine not long after it came out, probably a few months, and it was a single cassette.

I don't really see how it being longer then other albums at the time being that big of a change to the industry. But I can see what you're saying about increasing accessability. Parents and Nightmare where definately huge in suburbs. I think it could be argued that they made the suburban market for rap, the one that The Chronic later took advantage of.

The interesting part of He's The DJ being accessable is that even though it was suburb-friendly rap, it was also a great hip-hop album... Incredible scratches and beats by JJ, battle rhymes and insane flow by FP.

[Turntable]

To Turntable, if you want to know why "He's The DJ, is a game changer. I explained it back a page. About 4 or 5 people told you it was a "double album". I told you why it is a game changer. Plain and simple, it made work ethic more. After that, what they did wouldn't be a "double album" by today's standards. Now a double album is two cds. U got me?

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Yes i got it..Sorry!

Edited September 2, 2005 by Turntable

[Schnazz]

I just amazed at how none of us can say they stood out for a "Game Changing" album. There probably is a female rapper that did a big thing to get the likes of MC Lyte and Queen Latifah started, but she's jsut overlooked.

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That's a good point... I listened to a little female rap then, but not much. Wasn't MC Lyte the pioneer getting things started?

[Turntable]

Turntable why'd u think LL's "Radio" was a game changing album?

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It came out in 1885 and after it came out many MC`s tryd to copy the style..Plus he rocked the Mic like no one before that time and he was only 16..Thats why!

[Turntable]

sure there's been classics since but not really original anymore.

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Dizze Rascals`Album(!)s,The Albums of The Anti Pop Consortium(!) are veery original!

[bigted]

sure there's been classics since but not really original anymore.

←

Dizze Rascals`Album(!)s,The Albums of The Anti Pop Consortium(!) are veery original!

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They weren't popular though so they didn't impact the industry, Jay-Z and Nas are the top mcs out now but they're doing the same things Rakim and Big Daddy Kane did before them not that I'm saying they ain't great but they just ain't Rakim or Big Daddy Kane, a lot of the most popular rappers are basically doing what's been done before except they're both more popular than they ever were, Fugees brought back the Tribe Called Quest sound except they were also more popular than Tribe Called Quest, Biggie and Pac sorta done what Kool G Rap and Scarface did before them too but they were also more popular. Now "He's The DJ, I'm The Rapper" was the type of album that had credability in both the suburbs and the streets and so was "Homebase" and "Willenium" but they didn't have the impact that "He's The DJ..." had since JJFP were on the scene already, "Code Red" had street credability but it wasn't huge in the suburbs and so did "Rock The House", "Lost and Found"'s the same way it's gotten Will's street cred back but it isn't winning over much of the public audience the way "Big Willie Style" but that didn't have street credability, "He's The DJ, I'm The Rapper" is the most universal JJFP album even though it didn't sell 12 million, it had a huge audience in the streets and the suburbs and I think it's important to have both 'cause hip-hop is universal, Nas sorta only has street credibility, Jay-Z has street credibility and a commercial audience so I could understand why MTV might rank Jay-Z ahead of Nas 'cause we see Jay-Z videos more and that's why they rank LL ahead of KRS. I love "Radio" too but I think Will had just as much skills as LL did at that time too when he was 16 but I think the one LL album that impacted the industry the most was "Mama Said Knock You Out" since it was a more advanced style of LL's maturity and lyrically too it was a step above "Radio" and won a Grammy for best rap album! :word: I think LL's skills were about the same as FP's then when they were 16, Rakim was a step above both of them lyrically but he wasn't as good of a storyteller like FP or passionate as LL, he was just a straight lyricist, Big Daddy Kane was too but he wasn't popular as any of them, it's hard to compare them 'cause they're all legends, it depends who you're a fan of more. Why doesn't Big Pun get any love? He was the 1st latin rapper to release a platinum album with "Capital Punishment", he was just as dope of a lyricist as Jay-Z and Nas were at that time too, if he were still living he'd be ranked right up with them as the top lyricist out now, this is only once in a career thing to have an album to change the game, I don't think "He's The DJ, I'm The Rapper"'ll be outdone by JJFP no matter what they do, Public Enemy could never outdo the impact of "It Takes A Nation Of Millions..." either no matter how many more classics they'll drop.

Edited September 2, 2005 by bigted

[rcpbball30]

The first person to put out a double album, how is that not game changing? You see that relatively often in rap nowadays, thanks to who, JJFP. They were the first ones with the creativity, work ethic, and desire to do it, it was most definitely game changing, and if you don't think so, you seem to have a problem.

[bigted]

I think Queen Latifah and MC Lyte could beat both Eminem and 50 Cent in a lyrical battle, I don't think Em and 50 Cent have much credibility in the streets anymore either, from they did when they were underground but once they blew up they started to lose it and now with their recent albums it's all gone due to their publicity stunts, I think "Big Willie Style" even has more street credibility than "The Massacre" and "Encore" of course it's easily better too, even "Born To Reign" and "And In This Corner..." are also better than those albums too which I think are Will's worst albums which are still good but those 2 albums from Em and 50 make them ranked among the worst of all time, they've hit rock bottom, I think even Bow Wow could take them out now. :stickpoke: Queen Latifah's "Black Reign"'s better than anything Eminem has ever done in his career, her rhymes are very complex on that album too and she got a more aggressive flow, she's the female version of Will Smith since she got the rap game and Hollywood on lock I think she could drop a hit album tomorrow if she wants to easily, when you think of the best career in female rappers you think Queen Latifah although Salt-N-Pepa won a Grammy for "Very Neccessary" which is a great album with a lot dope songs on there but I think Queen Latifah's a better all around lyricist she got the complex rhymes and she makes great songs plus Salt-N-Pepa ain't around anymore, Foxy Brown's 1st album "Ill Na Na" was classic and her last album "Broken Silence" is very good too but it's no "Black Reign", I haven't really heard too much from MC Lyte I gotta get some albums from her but I'd say that verse on "Who Am I" and a few other songs I heard her rap on the radio are better than anything 50 has done, btw what album should I get from her? As I think about it I can't say Big Pun impacted the industry much either since Fat Joe's the only other latin rapper to hit platinum, it's just like there ain't an army of white rappers on the scene 'cause Em blew up and Pun's career was cut too short to know if he'd be still on same level as Jay-Z and Nas.

[Turntable]

sure there's been classics since but not really original anymore.

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Dizze Rascals`Album(!)s,The Albums of The Anti Pop Consortium(!) are veery original!

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They weren't popular though so they didn't impact the industry!

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Ofcourse they did..Just not the mainstream..

But i actualy didn`t mean that..You said after The Chronic there wasn something original..Well thats not true caus they where original!

And if you want some exsamples from Mainstream Albums who where Original then listen to Beastie Boys Hello Nasty or The Wutang Clans 36 Chambers!

[bigted]

sure there's been classics since but not really original anymore.

←

Dizze Rascals`Album(!)s,The Albums of The Anti Pop Consortium(!) are veery original!

←

They weren't popular though so they didn't impact the industry!

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Ofcourse they did..Just not the mainstream..

But i actualy didn`t mean that..You said after The Chronic there wasn something original..Well thats not true caus they where original!

And if you want some exsamples from Mainstream Albums who where Original then listen to Beastie Boys Hello Nasty or The Wutang Clans 36 Chambers!

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I think the Beastie Boys' one album that changed the game was "Licensed To Ill" although "Hello Nasty" is a great album too, I never heard Wu-Tang Clan's "36 Chambers" but I'd say that they probably are the most original since '93, it's hard to think of anybody else no matter how dope they were! :damnyou: There was never a group out with so many rappers that has had the success that they've had even though there's Hieroglyphics but I think that hip-hop magazines would list "36 Chambers" higher than "'93 Till Infinity", just like there's no DJ-MC duo like JJFP that has had a lot of success although there's Gangstarr and Pete Rock and CL Smooth that was obviously influenced but they never had JJFP success but have a lot of street credability in the hip-hop circle but wouldn't get ranked as high as JJFP are on mainstream hip-hop lists, I think Busta Rhymes reminds me of Will Smith too 'cause his videos are animated and he's a great performer, he might be a step above everybody recently too when it comes to being innovative, a lot of double albums have been made but I'd say only 'All Eyez On Me' could compete with the strength of "He's The DJ, I'm The Rapper", I think "Street's Disciple" and "Blueprint 2: Gift and Curse" have their down moments, the "Speakerboxx/Love Below" might be the most successful one but it's nowhere near as good as "He's The DJ, I'm The Rapper" and there's other better Outkast albums too it was like their "Big Willie Style" that got them more suburban fans.

Edited September 2, 2005 by bigted

[bigted]

I came up with a list of 25 albums that have impacted the industry either by selling a lot or were an influence to today's rappers like Big Daddy Kane, Kurtis Blow, Sugarhill Gang, and Grandmaster Flash and The Furious Five, most of them I listed are from the golden era but once ever other year or so now there's one or two albums that come out to keep the art of hip-hop alive on the scene:

25 Albums that've impacted the hip-hop industry

(1980-1993, The Golden Era)

Sugar Hill Gang “Sugar Hill Gang”

Grandmaster Flash and Furious Five "The Message"

Kurtis Blow “Kurtis Blow”

Run-DMC “Raising Hell”

BDP “Criminal Minded”

Beastie Boys “Licensed To Ill”

Eric B. and Rakim “Paid In Full”

Jazzy Jeff and Fresh Prince “He's The DJ, I'm The Rapper”

Slick Rick “The Great Adventures Of Slick Rick”

NWA “Straight Outta Compton”

Public Enemy “It Takes A Nation Of Millions To Hold Us Back”

MC Hammer “Hammer Don't Hurt 'Em”

LL Cool J “Mama Said Knock You Out”

Ice Cube “Amerikka's Most Wanted”

Dr. Dre “The Chronic”

Queen Latifah “Black Reign”

Big Daddy Kane “Long Live The Kane”

(1994-2005, Post-Golden Era)

Biggie “Ready To Die”

Jay-Z “Volume 2: Hard Knock Life”

Snoop Doggy Dogg “Doggystyle”

Nas “It Was Written”

DMX “It's Dark And Hell Is Hot”

Wu-Tang Clan “Enter The 36 Chambers”

Outkast “Stankonia”

Honorable Mentions: Salt N Pepa “Very Necessary” and Big Pun “Capital Punishment”, Other Classics That Didn't Impact The Industry but have street cred and have sold at least a respectable 200,000: Nas "Illmatic", Jazzy Jeff and Fresh Prince "Code Red", LL Cool J "G.O.A.T.", Possibility Impact: Will Smith "Lost and Found"(If "Tell Me Why" comes out it could change the game)

Edited September 2, 2005 by bigted