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L&F falls badly on charts


Frenetic

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Well at this rate, all my favorite mc's'll be quitting in a few years or some already might've quit already not 'cause they don't love to rhyme or they can't rhyme anymore but the state of industry is driving them away, it's like KRS is retired already 'cause hardly anybody listens to him or even knows he still makes albums, I mean they're even pushing Public Enemy's album release date back and they push Eminem's album release date up, I mean if there was no PE there'd be no Eminem, it should be the opposite. :sigh:

Edited by bigted
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I agree, hip-hop is in a bad state right now, skills mean nothing, no one gives any credit those who created it.

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I agree, hip-hop is in a bad state right now, skills mean nothing, no one gives any credit those who created it.

:yeahthat: that is really true. It's just sad that no real artists that help pave the way aren't getting their do's.

I'm gonna quote Chuck D as Forth Right MC in Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas when he said "All U Gangsta Rappers say U got skillz...Yeah Skillz at Stealing S@#*"

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As I said in another post, what more could Will do? He could have released PS earlier but what if it had tanked? What if Party Starter is another hot single like Switch but has no effect on sales?

I think he's done a lot of promotion for the album. The fact of the matter is the masses at large have slept on this album. That's not his fault.

Music sales as a whole are down. An album like Big Willie Style happens once in a blue moon. Look at Eminem - his first cd sold 3-4 million then his second one sold 10 mil. That was his Big Willie Style cd. The Eminem Show sold half of MMLP and Encore has barely matched TES. Michael Jackson sold 53 million albums worldwide for Thriller and even though a lot of people consider Bad a better album, it sold about half of that worldwide.

The fact is that the music industry is a business. It's a corporation and the only thing that matters is the bottom line. The industry is not concerned about good music; they're only concerned that the music sells. And when you stoop to those levels then you'll see the trash you see now. I don't think it would have mattered if Will released 3 singles at once.

As fans we want to see L&F do mad numbers but reality is that good, positive music doesn't sell. Period. You'll get an album here or there to slip through the cracks but the overall the industry is rotten and immoral. And it's not going to change but only get worse until the people have had enough and demand a change. That's why the industry is gearing this garbage to younger and younger people because you can easily influence and manipulate them. Once they buy into it then you got them for life and that generation will give the next generation even more garbage.

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I think their should be a "Self Destruction" Part II where we get all the positive mcs on one song! MTV sold out on Will too, they shoulda had Sway sit down and interview him for a half hour when the album dropped, Will was one of the original rappers to 1st get airplay on MTV, they might do some specials on him but they never repeat them as much as the other ones they do on gangsta rappers, they even repeat the special on Mike Jones more often than the one they did on Will for TRL, and they didn't even mention when Run-Dmc's last album dropped in '01, who are the pioneers for rappers to get airplay on there. TopDawg has hit right on the nail, Will has done so much to promote this album already, he was on 106 &Park, NBA Finals, Today Show, TRL, MTV Africa 46664 special, and Live 8 which is more than most rappers do, so whoever has it at this point as basically what the sales are, Will can't go out and promote on all those TV shows like he did when the album came out, that'd cost him too much money and since the album sales slowed down it's not worth it 'cause even with that you can't expect it to just jump up to the top 10, bottomline if people really wanted a change in hip-hop and complain about it being so vulgar for their children they'd all went out and bought this album to make it platinum the first month when it was heavily promoted, but it's obvious that they love the trash albums 'cause they even went out to buy Mike Jones and Boyz In The Hood faster than they did to buy "Lost and Found" or Common's "Be" which also had mad pub when it came out, that should be platinum by now too if people wanted a change, the positive music's out there, they just don't buy it.

Edited by bigted
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I think their should be a "Self Destruction" Part II where we get all the positive mcs on one song! MTV sold out on Will too, they shoulda had Sway sit down and interview him for a half hour when the album dropped, Will was one of the original rappers to 1st get airplay on MTV, they might do some specials on him but they never repeat them as much as the other ones they do on gangsta rappers, they even repeat the special on Mike Jones more often  than the one they did on Will for TRL, and they didn't even mention when Run-Dmc's last album dropped in '01, who are the pioneers for rappers to get airplay on there.  TopDawg has hit right on the nail, Will has done so much to promote this album already, he was on 106 &Park, NBA Finals, Today Show, TRL, MTV Africa 46664 special, and Live 8 which is more than most rappers do, so whoever has it at this point as basically what the sales are, Will can't go out and promote on all those TV shows like he did when the album came out, that'd cost him too much money and since the album sales slowed down it's not worth it 'cause even with that you can't expect it to just jump up to the top 10.

You've basically intimating that Will couldn't have done more to promote Lost and Found. By saying that, you're basically saying that having Switch out for going on 5 months is the best that Will could do. Do you really believe that Ted? Do you really believe that Will couldn't have performed other songs from Lost and Found. Are you saying that if Will had performed other songs from the album in addition to Switch, it would have made no difference, that it wouldn't have garnered more interest in the album and better sales, more buzz? Do you really believe that Switch, Gettin' Jiggy Wit It and Summertime were the best and only hopes to promote Lost and Found. 5 months guys. 5 months.

Will has done quite a lot to promote Lost and Found indeed, but when 3 or 4 out of the 4 or 5 songs you're performing aren't on the album... come on.

I know I can't be the only one on the forum who thinks that smarter marketing and a steadier release of singles would have helped the album...

If the album were still selling 30-35k, we'd probably still be talking about a 4th single... but notice how all talk of a 4th single has disappered...

People have been talking about how Will should be on mixtapes and a whole bunch of other stuff to get more respect in hip hop and promote the album... All that isn't necessary. He needs to go out and promote Lost and Found, not just Switch.

Now he's going to start filming and he's releasing Party Starter. Someone earlier said that he's releasing Party Starter this late so that he can better promote it... That doesn't make sense when the movie he's staring in is in production and his ability to get out and promote the single and the album is therfore limited.

What I think should have happened is that he should have released Party Starter a month to a month and a half ago. Performed it a few times to help it get it's legs, and let it dominate while he's filming... What happens is that classes are starting in the fall and it's gonna be spun at the parties and heard on campuses, so it should maintain while he's filming... When it falters.... Tell Me Why....

Yes... Will could have done a little more to promote Lost and Found. He's done a lot already, but he didn't do everything he could or even should have done.

My hypothesis is that Overbrook is going for huge singles, and if the album benefits, good... if not... oh well. The thing is, Lost and Found deserves more than that.

Edited by MaxFly
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Let's be real, I blame the music fans, not Will, he could do all he can, it was up to them to buy the album, they all knew it was released, if it never dropped under 50K a week Will and Overbrook would have more money to make the "Party Starter" video that'd came out in late May/early June, but the album slipped badly and now it's at the point where "Party Starter" might be the only single that comes out if that even comes out, Nas' album flopped so bad that we never got the single about Rakim to come out, so we might not get "Tell Me Why" coming out either and it's all the public's fault, the opportunity to get Kel Spencer on a remix is gone now too probably so he won't ever get buzz which is sad, most rappers only perform their singles when they go perform on shows to cater to the commercial fans since they buy more albums than hip-hop heads do, even Common performed "Go" at the BET Awards which is the worst song on his album too(a bad mistake he made too), Will talked in depth on The Today Show about what the album was about when he was interviewed and he performed "I Wish I Made That" on 106 & Park and there was all this hype online at every forum it seemed, that should've been enough for the public to get "Lost and Found" to go gold in the 1st week, that's more promotion than what Mike Jones did so far and he had a better 1st week and his album's still in the top 20, people want trash, let's face it Will's gonna have to go gangsta to sell 4 million! To say Will needs to go out and heavily promote the album now would be like sayin' he should've went to promote "Hitch" 2 months after it came out! Critics were already criticizing "Tell Me Why" and sayin' that he bit that off of Jadakiss' "Why", so maybe the commercial fans wouldn't except it that much either but they don't realise that Jadakiss bites off of other rappers too, hip-hop heads might but they don't make up the majority of people that buy albums 'cause we call KRS the greatest mc and commercial fans never heard of him.

Edited by bigted
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Max i just want 2 say i fully agree with you. i know Will's done a lot, but like you said, there are some things he could've done to improve the situation where he's at now. i wonder what would've happened if he performed Party Starter at the NBA finals....

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Let's be real, I blame the music fans, not Will, he could do all he can, it was up to them to buy the album, they all knew it was released, if it never dropped under 50K a week Will and Overbrook would have more money to make the "Party Starter" video that'd came out in late May/early June, but the album slipped badly and now it's at the point where "Party Starter" might be the only single that comes out if that even comes out

So I'll ask again...

Perfoming Getting Jiggy Wit It, Summertime, The Fresh Prince of Bel Air theme song and Switch was the best he could do to promote Lost and Found?

Again, I'm not talking about 3x or 4x... I'm talking about what Lost and Found can or could have realistically done if promoted properly. Lost and Found is not doing the best it can do, even with the present state of hip hop and as vapid as the fans are. The one verse of "I Wish I Made That" that Will did on BET is not going to make people rush out to buy the album, especially when, in this age, there's so much other music and other musicians competing for attention. A musician needs to stand out to get the attention of the fans as well as the haters and the doubters. Switch alone is not going to do that. Even more, the fact that he's dancing in the video is going to turn people off. I've heard from so many people that if it wasn't for Mr. Nice Guy, they wouldn't have bought the album and subsequently discovered how good it is because Switch just didn't generate much interest for them.

Mike Jones' video was on BET 17 times a day. He doesn't need to go out and do all the shows because his promotion is the video and exposure from the video.

Why is it that people are afraid to say that having Switch out as the only single for almost 5 months was a mistake?

In fact, let me ask that question....

Was having Switch out as the only single for going on 5 months a mistake? Was it good marketing for Lost and Found?

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In fact, let me ask that question....

Was having Switch out as the only single for going on 5 months a mistake? Was it good marketing for Lost and Found?

No, atleast two more videos with lots of CGI graphics and also guest artists should have been released by today. Especially Pump Ya Brakes, with Snoop in the video, as the second single and Tell Me Why or Party Starter as the third video with either Mary or Ludacris appearing in the videos. But obviously that didn't happen, so atleast going Gold at this age where the music industry is absolutely sinking should itself be considered as a huge accomplishment.

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If more people voted for "Switch" to get on 106 & Park and TRL than the album possibly could've done better when it came out but then again LL's videos were getting mad airplay and he didn't go platinum either. Will Smith's a household name that's been in the game for 20 years so if he gets some exposure, people should go out and buy his albums 'cause they should know that he raps about many things and keeps his music positive, but it seems like a lot of ol' school fans have sold out on the legends that're still out or were driven away into other music since hip-hop has become so wack, that's why Will made "Could You Love Me?" to the people who've sold out on him, but why would everyone rush out to buy a new artist's album when they don't know nothin' about them, nothin' Mike Jones does stands out either! Nelly dances in his videos with hoes and goes double platinum so why can't Will or LL go platinum with fun club videos? Most commercial fans don't buy music for consciousness now, maybe when the Fugees were out but now most of the popular videos out now are dumbed down videos, Will should've added more hoes in his video, people wanna see ass, lol, it was too tasteful for a 13-year old to ask their parents to buy it for them. MTV and BET have a bias towards ol' school rappers it seems like I said before 'cause they should replay the specials they've done on Will and he'd get instant exposure, the only way for Will to sell as much as Eminem is if he starts cursing a lot and makes a street album rapping about selling crack, he's gonna have to dumb down his style, now do you want that?

Edited by bigted
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the only way for Will to sell as much as Eminem is if he starts cursing a lot and makes a street album rapping about selling crack,

Then he mostly would have been labelled a sell-out and then the album would not have even touched gold. The thing is people have moved on from the 80's/90's to the millennium where especially in case of rap music, the audience are only interested in new artists. So times have changed a lot and there's nothing we can do about it.

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the only way for Will to sell as much as Eminem is if he starts cursing a lot and makes a street album rapping about selling crack,

Then he mostly would have been labelled a sell-out and then the album would not have even touched gold. The thing is people have moved on from the 80's/90's to the millennium where especially in case of rap music, the audience are only interested in new artists. So times have changed a lot and there's nothing we can do about it.

:word: That's my point exactly, I wouldn't buy the album if that happened, Will's keepin' it real to himself and the true fans who've remained and that's all that matters, end of discussion!

Edited by bigted
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Before we end the discussion, I guess both BigTed and Maxfly are right. Like Maxfly said, Will could have released more singles and performed more tracks to rope in some audience. That would have gotten the album sales a slight boost. But not a major boost because like Bigted said, the music fans are just not into the 90's rappers. So once again, Gold is good.

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All we could do is like the music we like, we can't force everybody to think like us, but they can't have us dumb down what we like either, gradually the kids'll grow out of the trash when they get older but since mostly kids buy hip-hop now, Common, Public Enemy, and FP will never get their due in the commercial world but the true fans of theirs will always respect them for not selling out, I mean kids even say that Nelly's better than James Brown so screw their shallow opinions and let's just enjoy the music!

Edited by bigted
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