IRAQ

[JumpinJack AJ]

I'm not following all this Presidential stuff tho' i have my opinions from the things i have heard and read. This post isn't meant 2 spark a fight (tho' i hardly care if it dose), but here is an e-mail that i wanted 2 share. I think it's really interesting. Sure, it may be compiled 2 support one side...but it's buildt up by quotes from the opposing side. Check it...

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Here is something else that might be of interest ...

(By the way, did you read in today's news that they are uncovering mass graves in Iraq with women and children who were shot in the back of their heads?)

if you didn’t read it, here is the link

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/13/...aves/index.html

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line." - President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program." - President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face." - Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983." - Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb 18,1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the US Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." - Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin (D-MI), Tom Daschle (D-SD), John Kerry (D - MA), and others Oct. 9,1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." - Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has . chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies." >- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that .. Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies." - Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, December 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandated of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them." - Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country." - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power." - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." - Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..." - Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." - Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9,2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years .. We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do" - Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members.. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons." - Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction." - Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime .. He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction . So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real" - Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

SO NOW EVERY ONE OF THESE PEOPLE SAY PRESIDENT BUSH LIED--THAT THERE NEVER WERE ANY WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION AND HE TOOK US TO WAR UNNECESSARILY!

Send this to everybody you know..The media and networks won't do it. Why do you suppose that is?

[Hero1]

there was never any weapons of mass destruction..and saddam hussein had no capability of producing them.. :ridepony:

[bigted]

We shouldn't have gone to war with Iraq, President Bush uses 9/11 as a crutch to lean on when he says that's the reason why we went to war with Iraq but Iraq wasn't the country that did that to us! :nhawong:

[Hero1]

We shouldn't have gone to war with Iraq, President Bush uses 9/11 as a crutch to lean on when he says that's the reason why we went to war with Iraq but Iraq wasn't the country that did that to us! :nhawong:

and apparently he was "liberating the iraqi people" :nhawong:

[Jazzy Julie]

what good has come out of this war, nothin. Lots of innocent ppl have died for nothing. To be honest when we first went to war i believed Bush and Blair and i thought the world would be a better place afterwards.

I was stupid to think that, if anything it has made things worse and terrorism still continues. just recently a man from Liverpool, Ken Bigly was killed by a group of extremists along with his 2 American friends and the video's were put up all over the internet of them being decaptitated.

I dont think its possible to stop terrorism when you are dealing with complete phyco's.

Edited October 14, 2004 by Jazzy Julie

[Guest Prince]

This is a turn up for the books. People here are beginning to talk about subjects me and Daedalus Mortality touched upon months ago (when nobody wanted to know).

[Guest Prince]

Okay, here we go... Nothing like a good bit of political debates...

Forget the extremist groups for a second though, in my opinion the "project for the all american centuray" is infact far scarier. All this "making the world a better place", but the evidence is there that since then extremism in the world has worsened. Ultimately, there will always be extremism and there has been for centuries, but for the US to use all military means at their disposel to secure assets vital for the well being of the USA and its economey. Basically use force to take control of places with oil, and to miltiarily take over any country that could threaten the US ability to do what it likes. This is far scarier.

Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and Cheney are all signatories of a Statement of Principles, and in this it states (and I quote... This is from a website by the way)

"Such a Reaganite policy of military strength and moral clarity may not be fashionable today. But it is necessary if the United States is to build on the successes of this past century and to ensure our security and our greatness in the next."

Would you not agree this is scarier? I know I certainly feel this is a very threatening statement for anyone outwith the USA.

The extemists are civilians and the USA is a country, a super power. Besides the resources they will gain from war, it is also a known fact that the entire American economy is based on warfare. They got out of their economical crisis because of World War II (before which they were not one of the worlds true super powers) and have been in constant war since, which like the quote sughests is of great importance for them.

Also the USA likes to think that International law doesn't apply to them. For example, the International Court of Law is in the Netherlands (Slobodan Milosovic is on trial there) so when war criminals are captured they should be brought there for prosecution, but the US created a law that if American war criminals get arrested then the US can invade Holland, free the criminals, and take them back by force. Of course, there are many other examples such as the invasion of Iraq and the things going on in Guatanamo Bay.

The Chinese of course are equally as bad. What they have done to Tibet is completely inexcusable. I'm not even going to go into it unless somebody wants me to.

Scotland (my country) is one of the nations listed as a threat to national security of the US (totally laughable!) because its politics is a threat to the existence of the UK.

Last year the US administration issued an order for the UK to ban Sinn Fein, the SNP (Scottish National Party), the SSP (Scottish Socialist Party), and the green party (the green party being the environmentalists), "and any other political organisation against the right of the UK to exist". Basically all the Labour (Tony Blair et all) opposition!! Perhaps Bush is trying to cement his support?

But asides from that, could the UK be reduced to three countries, with Scotland finally independent? I hope so.

"Free in 93" was the very ill-fated Scottish National Party (SNP) slogan, but free in 2007 is not just Alex Salmonds pipe dream, it is certainly a possibility especially if UKIP continues it's rise. The mere fact a Scottish General Election will take place in May 2007 will make the constitutional issue a huge one, marking of course the 300th Anniversary of the Act of Union. A referendum if held (let alone won) would spark a major constitutional crisis, under the Scotland Act the parliament would have acted beyond it's powers as set out in the Scotland Act. However it is not Westminster which is sovereign, Scotland does not recognize the absolute sovereignty of the Westminster parliament, since the Declaration of Arbroath the sovereignty lies with the people of Scotland. It would be ironic if the 1707 Act of Union was revoked in 2007, but perhaps also it is destiny, and that is a feeling which will grow as 2007 nears.

Here are three quotes from Tony Blair:

8th July 2003

"I don't concede it at all that the intelligence at the time was wrong. I have absolutely no doubt that we will find evidence of weapons of mass destruction programmes."

25th January 2004

"I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that the intelligence was genuine. It is absurd to say in respect of any intelligence that it is infallible, but if you ask me what I believe, I believe the intelligence was correct."

28th September 2004

"I want to deal with it head on. The evidence about Saddam having actual biological and chemical weapons, as opposed to the capability to develop them, has turned out to be wrong. I acknowledge that and accept it."

Daedalus Mortality would have been in his element in this thread. By the way, the above is collated information from one of the discussions between him and myself.

[bigted]

Bush fronts like everything's great for us going to war but we lost millions of jobs(50% of Afican Americans are unemployed!) and lost 1000 soldiers in fighting a country that didn't attack us in 9/11! :nhawong: Racism still exists considering that half of African Americans are unemployed, that means that there is more gang violence, teen pregnancies, no healthcare, etc., as a result of not being able to find a job and it's gonna get worse if Bush gets a 2nd term 'cause he only gives a damn about cutting taxes for the rich! :ditto: I agree with you Prince about us being in there for only oil, but the gas prices are at all time high in the US like the cost of living, but the minimum wage hasn't changed in a decade! :bang:

[Guest Prince]

The USA is run by criminals, and most of America's people are stupid as they are blind to this. They are just as bad for voting these criminals into power.

Edited October 15, 2004 by Prince

[Guest Prince]

I think basically, Bush and his uhm, how you say, cabinet ( ? ), have corrupted themselves.

Edited October 16, 2004 by Prince

[bigted]

The problem is that most of these people that run for political office are people that always lived in a Gated neighborhood where there's no drugs, poverty, or gangs, and had their parents hand everything to them, so they never had to work for anything, they go to the best schools, live in the best houses, and hang around a bunch of snobby rich people that run buisiness, so they don't know how to relate to the average man or woman who has to struggle to make ends meet, possibly hear gunshots everynight, and possibly even have to sell crack when they can't find a job in their neighborhood they don't wanna do it but they gotta survive, life's a bitch, but a lot of politicans act like everything's perfect when they know that it's not! :ditto:

[JumpinJack AJ]

The USA is run by criminals, and most of America's people are stupid as they are blind to this. They are just as bad for voting these criminals into power.

Oh yeah, that waz a real intellegent comment. :hilarious:

What's your deal??

[Guest Prince]

The USA is run by criminals, and most of America's people are stupid as they are blind to this.  They are just as bad for voting these criminals into power.

Oh yeah, that waz a real intellegent comment. :hilarious:

What's your deal??

:dunno: