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Do you think Will cares too much about sales?

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KRS' last platinum album came when Puffy was on the "Step Into A World" remix for him like that article I posted said, which was good for him at the time but even the more thugged out rappers were selling more than him, basically in order for positive hip-hop to sell it'd have be more commercialised(Like FP's "Big Willie Style", Black Eyed Peas, Kanye albums) but even then it probably still couldn't compete with the more thugged rappers out there, people just prefer to support that more, if Common could only go gold off having a commercial producer like Kanye produce his album then I don't know what it'd take, 50'd definately go way above gold if Kanye produced for him I could bet 'cause more people are into 50, 50 Cent actually had Talib Kweli's producer Hi-Tek on producing his last album as well, it really comes down to what the fans prefer, DJ Premiere could produce for Nas and go gold, produce for Christina Aguilara and sell millions,

Timbaland produces for Jay-Z and Jay-Z goes triple platinum, he produces for LL and LL goes gold, now that's a difference of millions right there, that's why record labels are looking for the next Jay-Z more than the next LL, it's a difference of millions of dollars right there for the labels to profit off of,people don't buy 'cause of producing they buy 'cause of the artist performing...

Everybody on this forum has beengoing on about if there was more big named producers and singles that "Lost and Found" would sell more but I was saying all along on the most part that it don't matter who produces for FP or how many singles get released FP won't be the highest selling rapper 'cause his raps are profanity free, most people look at that today as soft, they want to hear thug rap, rap about pimpin', drug dealin', he coulda had Timbaland, Kanye, Cool and Dre, etc. produce on "Lost and Found" released 5 singles and barely go past platinum 'cause he don't fit that mold of what most people want to hear, he knows that too, that's why he ain't breakin' his promise to his grandma just to sell more, that shows right there that he ain't worried about selling, Interscope knew that too that's why they didn't release more singles, it's a sad thing 'cause as fans we want to see more videos, that'd just cost the label way too much to do that and it wouldn't bring much profit back, it's sorta sad that hip-hop turned into Walmart and Mcdonald's 'cause it takes away from what artists could do, only somebody like 50 or Eminem could do a lot of videos 'cause there's a lot of people buying their product and the label profits off of that, now I think doing cross promotion helps FP some though since he's a big movie star, that's what does his career better than other positive rappers, he'd be underground like KRS right now if he wasn't topping box offices...

Positive hip-hop like Tribe Called Quest and De La Soul used to sell without being commercialised 'cause people were into them, there was as big of a market for them as there was for NWA at the time, once Snoop and Dre started blowing up people stopped buying JJFP(you see the difference of sales between "Homebase and "Code Red"), PE, LL, Tribe Called Quest, KRS, etc. type rap on the most part 'cause they started to get more into Biggie, Pac, now Eminem and 50 Cent type rap, there's not that much interest for variety, now people make fun of that positive type of hip-hop and call it backpacker or nerd crap and just support the thugged out rap, it ain't 50's fault that people don't want to buy Talib Kweli and Common...

Edited by bigted
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While I was writing in the "next album" thread, I was thinking "Does Will care too much about sales?" A lot of you were saying that he should go underground. I think that would be cool, but in a way Will sort of wants to make records more for the sales rather than for quality (if you think that sounds mean just pop in track 3 on B2R and wait for the chorus) Its obvious that he should get back together with Jeff and just do some straight JJFP especially for the 20 year anniversary. But I'll just put up a few points to show what I've observed:

he cares about sales:

*talks about them in rhymes

*changed his style for L&F, but the singles were only the BWS style tracks

*promotes on MTV, and didn't really try to stop people from milking switch

he doesn't care about sales:

*sticks to what he says (i.e. doesn't curse)

*did change his style for L&F, and that could have turned some people off

*let B2R be released (okay fine, THAT was mean, :P)

I think what Will said back in the Homebase era was best: "Well, we changed our style for this album is because our audience grew like we did and they would like this style more." (I paraphrased) I think Will's solo stuff should also change with his audience in a similar fashion, and L&F is a good start, but I want to see that continue.

I fully agree u man!

I think sometimes Will cares about the sales and sometimes not. It's like, when he sees that many people like his stuff, he thinks, 'Well, they like my album and my tracks, that's good - I'd like to keep it that way!'. And then he thinks sometimes, 'Well, who cares about the haters and my sales, I do all this for my fans only, for the people who love and for myself because I love doing what I'm doing, so I'm gonna do what I like and what my fans want of me!'. U understand? There are moments u don't care about the sales and there are moments u care about them because u think, 'Hmm, it's not bad - why not?'

But just as u said I want Will to keep it like L&F, too!

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Yeah well it just shows that FP is a true artist, he just doesn't go along with everything the record label tells him to do, he could just "follow everybody when it's time to rap" like he puts it, but he stands on his own, that's why his career been over 2 decades, and btw like I said earlier there's quality music out there it's just that people just don't seem to care to check for it or only listen to what the radio plays all the time rather than checking for what else is out there, just complain and not doing anything won't work, that's just like calling the president wack but not voting, what difference is that making? Positive artists won't get the push from their label if people don't support them, fans make or break careers, we could have a golden era of hip-hop again if fans open their minds to all styles again...

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I agree with what KoffeeBlakk said about Petey Pablo. I got his first album and I fairly enjoyed the album. But the difference between "Raise Up", and "Freak-a-leak" just turned me off. One point I will disagree with you on is getting past somebody's single. The whole point of a single is to turn people on to your album. It's just not everybody chooses to promote a different kind of single nowadays.

And 50, I thought his albums held up as far as mass appeal. "The Massacre" got a mixed reaction but everyone around me that I knew seemed to want it. And when I read a review between 'old school' and 'new school', "A Baltimore Love Thing" was actually a good song, even tho he personified being a drug. And anyway, Ted, 50 is not oging to change. It would take something miraculous but it's not going to happen. 50 and others have already dug a hole for their image. And with that, it's going to affect their personal lives a bit.

Actually, I do agree that the difference between Petey's first and 2nd album is a big one. His first album (atleast to me) is a very well put together debut, and one of the better ones of that year that came out. He lost a lot of his energy I feel on his 2nd album (Along with Timbo, who half-assed his effort on the album), and that's why I only listen to the 2nd half of the album where he shows me WHY I became a fan in the first place.

So far I've heard 3 songs off his new album ("Fire", "Give It Up" and "Show Me What You Got"), all produced by Lil' Jon - and not his cookie cutter beats either, and he seems to be back on the right track to a high energy album.

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how can u say he grew up and likes gangsta now, his last album he practically made a whole song about how gangsta rap is wack. Again i quote "truck wit rims (check) throw back jersey (check) champagne bottles (check) lot’s of models (check) Damn that’s the list for 90 percent of ya’ll videos and songs

Am I wrong" this is gangsta rap, thats what its all about.

You need to listen to his lyrics, thats where he says the truth, u cant take what he says in interviews as gospal, thats called good PR.

First of all, what you described is not gangsta rap, it's commercial music in it's entirety. It's also a reality - it's what they relate to since being int he position they're in.

Stop making excuses for Will, why would you think that's it's just a PR attempt? Because you feel that is is? Because you don't want to believe that he feels otherwise and likes something that YOU didn't think he would? Please. Dude's a grown man, if he can go on record with Snoop Dogg or say that Dr. Dre is a producer that he'd love to work with, support a movie starring T.I., or that he listens to 5.0 Cent what makes you think that he's just saying that for good PR? If Will is as genuine as you'd love for him to be, then you need to accept the he was genuine in what he said.

Plus, look at Wills videos, that checklist also applies to him as well ("Party Starter" being a perfect example), he's also rapped about those same topics himself so he's not a saint in that right at all.

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What Will said in "Lost and Found" is simple people, hip-hop needs BALANCE, now this goes back to what I said earlier:

I don't think Will has beef with gangsta rap, he got beef when gangsta rap is overexposed as the only image of rappers on a mainstream level, there's nothing wrong with somebody like NWA going platinum when there's also somebody like Run-Dmc going platinum, that's what made the golden era so great, there was all styles of rap getting recognised, there shouldn't be one style dominating more than another, at the same time if gangsta rap never came along rap wouldn't have much credibility if everyone was doing party songs...

So on that note like y'all said Will's concerned over sales for the right reasons, he knows the power that an album being successful could have on an industry, if beef sells records more rappers beef, if sex sells more sex gets promoted, so if something positive could sell it could lead to more positive things to come, really the power that the consumer has is undenibly important, when they favor one style over the other than that's why everything on the radio sounds the same, every video looks the same, the truth is that FP might rap about some of the things that those rappers do but he does it in a fun and tasteful way that everyone could watch and not be offended, I think that's the reason why a lot of older audiences get turned off from hip-hop too 'cause it's too juvenile for them to watch, there's nothing wrong with club songs though, he shows you don't have to call a woman a bitch or talk about taking does of extasy in them to be hot songs, not every music video has to look like soft porn, there needs to be alternative, but people find that soft and they don't vote for his videos to get on 106 & Park so that's why there's not much out there like that, btw Common released a catchy song in "Go!" last summer, which was basically a tasteful and fun song but it still didn't get as much airplay as the more hardcore videos got then...

Edited by bigted
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Yeah the good thing is that nothing stays the same forever, it's gonna turn around in the near future, record sales in hip-hop are down recently and that's a good thing 'cause that means it could go back to the artistry, instead of doing certain things in thinking that more records will be sold

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