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MooseKnuckles

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I'm not saying you cant like Kanye.. I'm just saying if you think he has an amazing flow..you are seriously mistaken :lolsign: Jay-Z has a great flow.. chuck d has a great flow..big daddy kane has a great flow..kanye does not

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and it aint just Kanye.. I think about 90% of rappers who are commercially successful at the moment have an appaling flow..no skills at all :word: and i'm not saying Wills flow is unbelievable either,..will's is solid.. but im comparing kanye to rappers like Aceyalone, hieroglyphics.. listen to those 2 artists and then listen to kanye and you'll understand what im talking about...

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Kanye's flow isn't that impressive but then again Will's flow isn't always great either. like tim said, there's so many people who have a better flow than Kanye does but that doesn't mean he's not a good rapper right now. i think he's overrated a lil but he's still good and i don't expect him to have the best flow ever either.

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I'm not one 2 knock someone else's opinions. But i don't think alota people here know what flow actually means. Flow is the way u verbally handle the beat. Flow is the way your voice is on the track. Flow is how u express yourself thru' the use of your voice. It's hard 2 put in2 words, but if u don't know what it is...hopefully u do now.

I actually think FP always comes correct on his flow. Some songs are stronger than others, but i think he's amoungst the best...and i'm not saying that just cuz he's my favorite emcee.

I think Kanye's new album is pretty good...as far as commerical albums go. But there's no way his flow is anything about average. And on most songs, that's stretching it.

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and it aint just Kanye.. I think about 90% of rappers who are commercially successful at the moment have an appaling flow..no skills at all  :word: and i'm not saying Wills flow is unbelievable either,..will's is solid.. but im comparing kanye to rappers like Aceyalone, hieroglyphics.. listen to those 2 artists and then listen to kanye and you'll understand what im talking about...

You mean Acey the G.O.A.T.? Seriously though, wait till ACD2 comes out later this year and these cats will see what we mean.

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I think Will easily has one of the greatest flows ever, to compare him to Kanye is a joke to me no matter how much you like Kanye 'cause Will's one of the greatest, compare him to Big Daddy Kane, LL, or Rakim, Kanye ain't there yet even though he's good now! :stickpoke: I don't like it when people compare Nick Cannon to Will either, you can't compare nobody out now to Will! His flow is average at best and most of his movies are average, except for "Drumline", I didn't see his new movie but I don't hear anybody talkin' about it, so he ain't no legendary rapper/actor, people have to talk about you, I heard a few people talk about "Drumline", nobody ever mentioned a lick about his album and if someone did they said it sucked, AJ and a couple other people are the only people I heard of that think that he has mic skills, 50 Cent has some mic skills but his content makes you forget that, just like Eminem, the only reason why so many of us like Kanye is 'cause of his subject matter, the same with Nick Cannon too if you like him. Beats are cool to have but if you ain't sayin' nothin' or have an awful flow, I might as well buy an instrumental tape. btw, Aceyalone can't be the G.O.A.T. seriously Tim, he's a great mc but hardly anybody ever heard of him, has everyone here heard of him? I didn't hear of him until Tim mentioned him to me. You need to have fans or at least be a household name to be the G.O.A.T., I'm giving the crown to LL Cool J if it ain't Will Smith, their names are familiar to hip-hop like Jerry Rice to football, Michael Jordan to basketball, 'cause there no mc besides Will that could contest him it's more than an album title that's who he is 20 years of incredible flows, Jay-Z could've but he's retired now, who can be that consistant and have so many people hear of you? He's "All World", there's not a place you could go where you haven't heard of LL, same with Will, "Mr. Clean but the fact remains/Got girls that don't speak english screaming my name". Rakim has slowed down, I'm sorry, his last album was kinda weak and that's 6 years ago, "The Definition" is way better than "The Master", "Mama Said Knock You Out" is on the same level "Paid In Full", and "The G.O.A.T." is better than "The 18th Letter". Could Rakim rip one of today's mcs the way LL took care of Cannibus? Will could easily finish off Eminem if he decided not to be such a nice guy from the way he flowed on "Lost and Found", the punchlines are incredible too, Em can't take on Will, maybe 5 years ago but that's when "Willenium" was out so I don't know about that! :stickpoke: Now KRS could 'cause he's still out there but hardly anyone listens to him now and he's not as versatile as LL even though he could outflow 100% of the rap game, there's not one rapper that could step in the ring with KRS and beat him,not Jay-Z, not Nas, not even LL or FP, KRS stands alone when it comes to flow but versatility kills him from being well known, people don't like conscious rap that much. Maybe 10 years ago Rakim would compete with KRS and everyone else but he might be a lil' rusty now, Melle Mel could be right what he said about him 'cause if it takes you 6 years to do an album coming off a weak album, something's wrong, it's not like he's doing movies, lol. Slick Rick could put out a hot album tomorrow on the other hand 'cause his last one was hot 6 years ago, Heavy D could too, his last album 6 years ago was hot, he got a crazy flow too, Big Pun had a nice flow, DMX got a nice flow but he retired and is coming back supposedly, Fat Joe got a nice flow but his commercial albums don't display that, Queen Latifah could outflow 100% female rappers and 90% male rappers, she outflowed Treach on "Rough...", she has the same problem as Ice Cube, doing too many movies and no albums in over 5 years. If I walk down the street and ask somebody who Aceyalone is, they won't know who he is, but they'll know who Will Smith is, they'll know who Jay-Z is, they'll know who Eminem is, who 2Pac is, who Biggie is, who Jay-Z is, who Kanye West is, they might even know who KRS is before Aceyalone.

Edited by bigted
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Slow is just like AJ said something hard to explain, but it should'nt be mistaken with delivery.

Delivery is how real you sound on the beat, it's how good you can "act" (hopefully u don't need to act to have a good delivery)..

Examples:

Good Delivery: Will Smith - Summertime, Tell Me Why. Jay-Z - Moment of clarity, can't knock the hustle. Nas - Suicide Bounce, Kanye West - Roses, Jesus Walks.

Flow is not just cooperating with the rhythm of the beat BUT it is also were you put your syllables in the beat and how long syllables you use. To actually have a really, really perfect flow you need to be a pretty good lyricist.

Perfect flows are the ones Jay-Z, Biggie, Rakim and so on uses.

But there also really good flows like Nas, Busta Rhymes, KRS ONE, Common.

And there is good flows like Will, Kanye, DMX, Talib and more.

Looking at it from that point of view I would say Kanye has a solid delivery but a solid flow, He has some songs were it's really good, and some songs were he fails to adapt to the beat (mostly older songs).

Will has a solid flow but not as good delivery even though it does shine really good sometimes like the examples shown above. His delivery was much better in the JJFP days actually. On born to reign his delivery is at it's worst, u can almost feel the way he didn't have a drove for music at the moment, but Lost and found contains some of the best delivery.

Hero1: just admitt it, ur hating.

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Slow is just like AJ said something hard to explain, but it should'nt be mistaken with delivery.

Delivery is how real you sound on the beat, it's how good you can "act" (hopefully u don't need to act to have a good delivery)..

Examples:

Good Delivery: Will Smith - Summertime, Tell Me Why. Jay-Z - Moment of clarity, can't knock the hustle. Nas - Suicide Bounce, Kanye West - Roses, Jesus Walks.

Flow is not just cooperating with the rhythm of the beat BUT it is also were you put your syllables in the beat and how long syllables you use. To actually have a really, really perfect flow you need to be a pretty good lyricist.

Perfect flows are the ones Jay-Z, Biggie, Rakim and so on uses.

But there also really good flows like Nas, Busta Rhymes, KRS ONE, Common.

And there is good flows like Will, Kanye, DMX, Talib and more.

Looking at it from that point of view I would say Kanye has a solid delivery but a solid flow, He has some songs were it's really good, and some songs were he fails to adapt to the beat (mostly older songs).

Will has a solid flow but not as good delivery even though it does shine really good sometimes like the examples shown above. His delivery was much better in the JJFP days actually. On born to reign his delivery is at it's worst, u can almost feel the way he didn't have a drove for music at the moment, but Lost and found contains some of the best delivery.

Hero1: just admitt it, ur hating.

:word: Good explanation! I agree.

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Biggie's flow is perfect? :rofl: His flow is one of the most annoying ever, he had nice rhyme structure but he's one of the most annoying people to listen to on the most part except for "Juicy" and a couple other songs. Will needs to go back with Jeff, he brings out the best of Will's flow like on "Code Red", "Homebase", "He's The DJ...", and 'Willenium", "Lost and Found" is great though.

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Big Ted, I was halfway joking. Yes, people are gonna know of KRS before they know Acey, but what does that matter. He does have quite the gathering of loyal fans that stick through thick and thin. Heck, I know Acey's got some kind of following here in PHX. Whenever I go to a show, in between acts, what do the deejays usually spin...Public Enemy, KRS, Slick Rick, Rakim, Aceyalone, etc. The deejays have always fit him in with some of the greatest names in Hiphop.

If you take a listen to his four/five solos, and then what else he has innovated and been a part of (Fellowship, Haiku) and even blessing others with guest appearances and being on compilations like the Calicomm cd from this year, Okayplayer, and the upcoming NBA 2K6 soundtrack, his work ranks up there with ANYBODY'S! Some of the nicest stuff Hip Hop has ever heard, IMO. Anyways, it's hard to say he's G.O.A.T. with little mass recognition, so maybe one could make a better case for underground/indie champ or lesser...like the godfather of Cali Hip Hop (along with Del, perhaps).

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I don`t like Kanye..I think it`s boring!

1.Beats:

Hi`s Beats aren`t bad but they are way to overated.The sound great when a Songs is new but after a while all of them get boring!Also i hear people say he`s "The Soulman" `caus he intrdouced it but that isn`t true as well..RZA did way before some one knew Kanye!

I think the only Beat on the Album he didn`t produce is best one.He was way better in the Blueprint Area!

Everyone keeps saying Kanye is one of the beste Producers now but i don`t think so.What Swiss Beats did on the new Cassidy Album or the Beastie Boys on TT5B or Cool and Dre on the Fat Joe Album is better and more catchy than waht Kanye did in the last time.

2.Flow/Style:

I think he doesn`t have such a good flow..Other new MC`s like Cassidy or Jay Milz have way better ones!

Plus Kanye sounds like he can hardly open his mouth lol

And he`s to often not on the Beat and Monotonic with his voice..There are almost no emotions in his Voice!

3.Lyrics:

Props for him what depends the lyrics!

I realy like them but his flow and his rapstyle are just so iritating that even his Lyrics can`t save him..

Sometimes Songs of him are great becaus of the Beats but only for a while.After a while they get boring like "Diamonds Are Forever"!

Plus i think he` s to arogant..Yes i know LL is maybe the most arogant person in the world (lol) but he has a real reason tho!

That is my opinion..Most of you will think difrent and i respect that ofcourse!

Edited by Turntable
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Aceyalone could be an underground legend, calling him the pioneer of Cali rap is wrong 'cause Ice-T, Too Short, and Dr. Dre came out first, sure Dr. Dre is a better producer than a rapper like Kanye but he really does have a nice flow that kills Kanye, especially on all the songs on "The Chronic", "Chronic 2001" was lost focus on the most part with him just like "Born To Reign" lyrically but he did shine on "Still D.R.E.", his verses on "Forgot About DRE", "The Watcher", and "The Next Episode" just like Will shined on "Born To Reign", "Block Party", "Act Like You Know", and "As The Beat Goes", all the guest appearances on "Chronic 2001" was just as lame as hearing Tra-Knox on every song, it killed it from being a classic, "Born To Reign" should've sold 6 million like that album and the other overrated stuff out now even though it wasn't his best, the worst stuff sells on the most part, IMO, I wouldn't call "Big Willie Style" his best either even though it's a lil' better than "Born To Reign" and close to "Lost and Found" flowwise, not content wise except for "Just The Two Of Us" and "Chasin' Forever" which were serious songs, and maybe a lil' better than "Homebase" to maybe say it's his 5th or 6th best album, no matter how you slice it, his catalog ranks among the all-time greats, every rapper has made an average album like "Born To Reign", if you don't think so you're really a Loretta of that rapper, nobody's perfect but Will comes one of the closest, 20 years deep in his career, he's a legend no doubt. "Code Red" should really be his highest selling album that sold 13 million 'cause everybody should hear the skills he displayed on there, "He's The DJ..." sold 2 million in '88 then again which is like selling 15 million now, it was rare to do then, well then again "Reasonable Doubt" is Jay-Z' lowest selling album too so skills doesn't sell. Biggie could rip 70% of the rap game now I'll admit even though I ain't a huge fan of his, 50 Cent and Game make him look like a rap god, he's a tad bit overrated, Heavy D deserves more credit 'cause he originated the overweight lover concept and could outflow Biggie!

Edited by bigted
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