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Obama, the economy and the recession


MaxFly

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I think it speaks volumes that Powell is so concerned for this country that he'd vote against his own party, and all the crap that comes with that choice ( yes the "b/c he's black" thing is getting really old) and I def. respect him for that, esp. since a big factor was McCain's choice of Palin. At this point I'd be more concerned that this woman wants the job of VP, yet has no idea what a VP does. We just sat through 8 years of stupid do we really have room for more?

Edited by MissAshley
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palin opposes abortion in cases of rape and incest..I find that highly objectionable

To justify killing a life because of another crime is highly objectionable.

Please tell me you arent deciding for you you whote mainly based on one issue. This is the leader of the free world your electing, he basicly controls us too.. but we cant vote. so dont f it up for us caus you dont like abortion. lol.

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Please tell me you arent deciding for you you whote mainly based on one issue. This is the leader of the free world your electing, he basicly controls us too.. but we cant vote. so dont f it up for us caus you dont like abortion. lol.

It's a barrier for me to vote for Obama. I could possibly vote for Obama, but only if his opponent's policies were more 'pro-death' collectively. So if you can prove to me that McCain supports something that has lead to the death of 48.5 million people, I'd be more than willing to listen.

I do agree with the above post... The fact Powell is going against his party shows there is a real problem with the Republican's platform on economic/war issues.

....

Addendum: I would probably have voted for Obama/Hillary/Edwards if a Guiliani or Romney candidate was opposing them.

Edited by Bob
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YES. But a higher rate of 28% would create a prohibitive nature to buying stocks, as you will need more money to gain the same profit. Thus, it limits the small time investor, like a 20 some year old, from investing.

So basically, the argument is that some would refuse to take part in an investment where they see the potential to make around 5000 in pre tax profit and about 4250 after a 15% capital gains tax because they'd only make 3600 after a 28% capital gains tax. Would you really forego a good investment because taxes on the profits are a little higher? The extra 13% in taxes on your profits (and were are talking about the maximum Obama would even consider raising the cap gains tax, it's far more likely that he will only raise it to 23%) isn't significant enough to be a big deterrent for serious traders or even people just starting off.

As I said, I have money in the stock market myself.. I don't really want the capital gains tax increased, but if it helps the country, I have to think about more than just my profits.

Here's an example...

The Massachusetts state income tax is 5% right now. There is a ballot inititive this year that calls for the reduction of the state tax next year, and the abolition of the tax by 2010. I guarantee you there are people who think this is a great thing; that's 5% more of their money they get to keep. What they don't realize is that the abolition of the state tax will negatively affect schools, police departments, fire departments and other state funded organizations. Moreover, much of that money will be recouped in the form of higher taxes on consumer goods and land and real estate. We have to start looking at the big picture. I'd like not to have to pay state taxes, but not if it adversely affects the state's economy, our schools, etc... because eventually, that will trickle down to me.

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I wouldn't want to be buying stock at the moment anyway, unless you want to lose money

This is THE IDEAL TIME TO BUY, if you don't need your money in the next couple of years. Most people buy when the market is doing well and sell in a panic during a downturn. That results in a net loss. This is a 'bargain' market as Buffet stated earlier in the week. Unless you are a senior citizen or someone who expects to be paying large amounts of medical costs (that would sap your paycheck and insurance), this is the time to invest (buy low, sell high).

It's also very advantageous for quick sellers since beta (volatility) is high. If you can time right, you can make strong profits in relatively short time (it's also quite risky).

Bob's actually right. Many companies are severely undervalued right now because of the economic crisis. Now is a good time to carefully invest your money...

Bob, you said something interesting about quick sellers. You do know that a reduction in the capital gains tax wouldn't be beneficial to day traders and quick sellers, right? Cap gains tax rate only kicks in after a year of owning a stock. Profits made by quick sellers are taxed at that seller's income tax rate.

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I disagree that its a good time to buy.. right now the stock market is going down because of peoples worries about what is going to happen.. wait til the recession actually hits.. high unemployment, people being laid off, companies profits will dry right up and people won't be investing in them.. its gonna take 4 or 5 years to recover...

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I disagree that its a good time to buy.. right now the stock market is going down because of peoples worries about what is going to happen.. wait til the recession actually hits.. high unemployment, people being laid off, companies profits will dry right up and people won't be investing in them.. its gonna take 4 or 5 years to recover...

A few weeks back, a US Bank, Sovereign Bank, lost about 72% of it's stock value. The next day, I think it regained 70% of that value. That would have been an excellent short term buy to turn around and sell. I agree that it's a tough time to buy... we don't know which industries are going to crash, and in truth, all of them seem pretty bad, but if you're looking to invest long term, you'll be getting in at bargain prices right now. The key is to put your money in carefully and leave it alone...

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I disagree that its a good time to buy.. right now the stock market is going down because of peoples worries about what is going to happen.. wait til the recession actually hits.. high unemployment, people being laid off, companies profits will dry right up and people won't be investing in them.. its gonna take 4 or 5 years to recover...

A few weeks back, a US Bank, Sovereign Bank, lost about 72% of it's stock value. The next day, I think it regained 70% of that value. That would have been an excellent short term buy to turn around and sell. I agree that it's a tough time to buy... we don't know which industries are going to crash, and in truth, all of them seem pretty bad, but if you're looking to invest long term, you'll be getting in at bargain prices right now. The key is to put your money in carefully and leave it alone...

While you guys are right in that when the market sucks you want to be buying, now is a tricky time for lay investors. First, with as crazy as the market's been in the past little bit, how do you know it's not going to drop another 20% next week? There's been a number of times over the past year where the market has shed a lot of points but was no where near the bottom. Second, some major institutions have been going bankrupt. If you invested in them, you weren't going to be making any money no matter how long you waited. With such strong companies going under, it's hard to know what companies are safe from bankruptcy. That's part of the reason why the credit market was so frozen, even the experts didn't know what was coming next. I'm still investing (for better or worse), but I wouldn't begrudge anyone who's staying out of it right now.

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I disagree that its a good time to buy.. right now the stock market is going down because of peoples worries about what is going to happen.. wait til the recession actually hits.. high unemployment, people being laid off, companies profits will dry right up and people won't be investing in them.. its gonna take 4 or 5 years to recover...

A few weeks back, a US Bank, Sovereign Bank, lost about 72% of it's stock value. The next day, I think it regained 70% of that value. That would have been an excellent short term buy to turn around and sell. I agree that it's a tough time to buy... we don't know which industries are going to crash, and in truth, all of them seem pretty bad, but if you're looking to invest long term, you'll be getting in at bargain prices right now. The key is to put your money in carefully and leave it alone...

While you guys are right in that when the market sucks you want to be buying, now is a tricky time for lay investors. First, with as crazy as the market's been in the past little bit, how do you know it's not going to drop another 20% next week? There's been a number of times over the past year where the market has shed a lot of points but was no where near the bottom. Second, some major institutions have been going bankrupt. If you invested in them, you weren't going to be making any money no matter how long you waited. With such strong companies going under, it's hard to know what companies are safe from bankruptcy. That's part of the reason why the credit market was so frozen, even the experts didn't know what was coming next. I'm still investing (for better or worse), but I wouldn't begrudge anyone who's staying out of it right now.

I agree, nothing wrong with playing it safe. You don't know who will go bankrupt next.

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Hey Bob, it looks like Obama will only be seeking to raise the Cap Gains tax to 20% on couples making over $250,000 and singles making over $200,000; basically, he will allow it to revert to what the rate was prior to 2003. He would also eliminate capital gains taxes on gains from investments in startup companies. It seems that he defined this more specifically when the economic crisis started.

It doesn't look like an increase in the cap gains tax will affect you after all.

We mentioned volatility before... here's an excert of a CNN Money article about that...

If anything, slashing the capital gains tax for two years may prompt more people to sell by the end of 2010, injecting more volatility into the stock markets, experts said.

"What you're telling people is to invest today with plans to take the money out next year or the year after," said Roberton Williams, principal research associate at the Tax Policy Center in Washington. "That's not a good long-term policy and it's not good for the market in the long run. I don't see how it ensures people putting new money in the market."

http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/15/news/economy/capital_gains/

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Well I sure picked a poor day to say that it's a good time to invest in the market... :thumbdown:

haha. I was waiting for somebody to come say that. this shift in conversation really sparked my interest.

Lol, today was probably a good day to invest...

Anyway, just wanted to bump this to give Bob a chance to respond.

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