mfuqua23 Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Somehow you missed the point. You don't have to hear every single emcee who ever walked the earth. You can't perfect a list. You can at least average it out. If every single lyricist, rapper, emcee, whatever was heard, you and I, and a thousand others we know ain't signed would have to be included as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 holy sh!t these are long posts :lolsign: sorry to dissapoint by not inputting my opinion...i just cant win with teds powerhouse posts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpinJack AJ Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 My overall thing is this. After opinions are stated and different emcees and rappers are compared, it comes down 2 one main thing 2 me. Who has heart? When 2Pac, Fresh Prince, LL Cool J, Rakim, Talib Kweli, Kel Spencer and Chuck D write a rhyme, where are they going with it? They are doing it 4 da love of da game. They are expressing ideas and trying 2 make better...or at least make since of life and the world. When they aren't doing that, they are entertaining us, rocking the mic, or making quality music. But where is the heart in alot of commerical rap? 50 Cent isn't trying 2 make anyone think. Kanye West isn't trying 2 take his skillz 2 the next level. Ludacris isn't changing the world. Puffy isn't helping a hopless soul get thru' 1 more day. They don't care about art. They just care about making money and being famous. Without heart...without love, without a desire 2 create something incredible...u don't have Hip-Hop....u have commercial rap. U can like all J-Kwon's and G-Units u like. That's fine with me. Just don't try 2 tell me that Lil Jon is doing the same thing that Common Sense is doing. I'm not stuck in a time warp...i just won't settle 4 less than good music by talented artists. And most of the time, u won't find that on the charts or on the radio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfuqua23 Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Very well put AJ. At the end of the day, who has heart? Will can't help it if him releasing what he feels happens to make money, and it not being the sole purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 People should stop Comparing MCs, plain and simple. You can't say, "Who is better, Fresh Prince or Jay Z?". Two completely differnt styles, flows, rhymes, everything. You aren't comparing the two, no matter how much it seems like you are. all you are really doing is weighing your opinions together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigted Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 (edited) I personally disagree with you AJ, again it's all opinion, some people might say FP has no heart either for hip-hop 'cause he does more movies than music and a lot of people just call him a commercial rap sell-out.... Kanye West has heart in his music, he don't have a great flow but that don't mean he don't have heart, he puts a lot of positive content into his songs, even Chuck D would said that, I could even find his quote from his site if you don't believe me.... Will's friends with both 50 and Luda, I don't think he'd hang with heartless people..... A lot of the ol' school hip-hop songs were about money and being famous though, this didn't just start now, by your logic that means we wouldn't consider Sugar Hill Gang, LL Cool J, Run-Dmc, Eric B. and Rakim, MC Hammer, Slick Rick, Biz Markie, JJFP, Dana Dane, etc. hip-hop then since most of their songs were about money and being famous, they showed that in their videos and album covers, everything back then was party, party, and more partying, maybe a couple of serious songs in between but that's what most of today's mcs do as well, the pioneer mcs in the '70s were all party mcs, they did it to make people ignore the realities of the world, that's what the origination of hip-hop was, party music, the 1st famous song in hip-hop history was "Rapper's Delight", which is a big boast of money, fame, and sex which was the blueprint to what a lot have done since.... That's why some hip-hop purists think that conscious rap is the purist artform 'cause it's more than about partying, so that means only mcs like KRS, Chuck D, Ice Cube, Talib Kweli, Lauyrn Hill, and Dead Prez would be considered hip-hop then if we go by your logic, that's an ignorant thought though.... You see 50 Cent, Luda, Puffy, Jay-Z, and Lil' Jon with all of their club songs on the radio but they have a couple serious songs on their albums just like FP does(what was his FP's last 2 singles again?), it's not quite as good of course to me at least but they do have some heart.... Do you personally know anybody who listens to those mcs? They're affected by the music they buy, whether you'd admit it or not, the music touched their lives... Hip-hop is about entertainment and having fun and those kids who buy a Puffy album now might play it at parties or cars and enjoy it just like kids would 15 years ago when they bought an MC Hammer album, listen to it makes them feel better when they're having bad days, they need to be entertained, it touched their lives.... Hip-hop is many things but it is music most importantly, it makes you laugh, dance, cry, think, or even hate, whether you like it or not even the wack mcs affected you, you wouldn't go through all this trouble dissin' somebody if you weren't trying to make a point, every mc touches you when you're a fan of hip-hop...Think about this though, maybe those who're Public Enemy fans say the same things criticising a lot of mcs who ain't conscious like Public Enemy, in fact a read a post on the Public Enemy board last week and they were saying that LL should ask Chuck D for direction 'cause it seems like he's only making songs for money.... You claim that you like Nick Cannon and Black Eyed Peas but they also do a lot of club songs on the radio about money and fame on the radio as well, that means they have no heart either?.... Give it a rest man, you like who you like and leave it at that, there ain't no perfect list that defines what every hip-hop fan needs to listen to, not what MTV says, not what BET says, not what VH1 says, not what any magazine says, or not what any fan says, not even what any mc says, we all like who we like, whether we listen to 1000 mcs or 5 mcs, even if everyone heard 1000 mcs they'd still make different lists 'cause everyone has different tastes, there's no definitive lists, the only thing definitive is that we're all fans.... How could you compare MC Hammer to Chuck D? How could you compare LL Cool J to Scarface? It's different styles all in one genre, it depends what you like more.... Edited January 5, 2006 by bigted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turntable Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 (edited) I personally disagree with you AJ, again it's all opinion, some people might say FP has no heart either for hip-hop 'cause he does more movies than music and a lot of people just call him a commercial rap sell-out.... Kanye West has heart in his music, he don't have a great flow but that don't mean he don't have heart, he puts a lot of positive content into his songs, even Chuck D would said that, I could even find his quote from his site if you don't believe me.... Will's friends with both 50 and Luda, I don't think he'd hang with heartless people..... A lot of the ol' school hip-hop songs were about money and being famous though, this didn't just start now, by your logic that means we wouldn't consider Sugar Hill Gang, LL Cool J, Run-Dmc, Eric B. and Rakim, MC Hammer, Slick Rick, Biz Markie, JJFP, Dana Dane, etc. hip-hop then since most of their songs were about money and being famous, they showed that in their videos and album covers, everything back then was party, party, and more partying, maybe a couple of serious songs in between but that's what most of today's mcs do as well, the pioneer mcs in the '70s were all party mcs, they did it to make people ignore the realities of the world, that's what the origination of hip-hop was, party music, the 1st famous song in hip-hop history was "Rapper's Delight", which is a big boast of money, fame, and sex which was the blueprint to what a lot have done since.... That's why some hip-hop purists think that conscious rap is the purist artform 'cause it's more than about partying, so that means only mcs like KRS, Chuck D, Ice Cube, Talib Kweli, Lauyrn Hill, and Dead Prez would be considered hip-hop then if we go by your logic, that's an ignorant thought though.... You see 50 Cent, Luda, Puffy, Jay-Z, and Lil' Jon with all of their club songs on the radio but they have a couple serious songs on their albums just like FP does(what was his FP's last 2 singles again?), it's not quite as good of course to me at least but they do have some heart.... Do you personally know anybody who listens to those mcs? They're affected by the music they buy, whether you'd admit it or not, the music touched their lives... Hip-hop is about entertainment and having fun and those kids who buy a Puffy album now might play it at parties or cars and enjoy it just like kids would 15 years ago when they bought an MC Hammer album, listen to it makes them feel better when they're having bad days, they need to be entertained, it touched their lives.... Hip-hop is many things but it is music most importantly, it makes you laugh, dance, cry, think, or even hate, whether you like it or not even the wack mcs affected you, you wouldn't go through all this trouble dissin' somebody if you weren't trying to make a point, every mc touches you when you're a fan of hip-hop... That`s what I had in mind. Can`t say more. :word: Edited January 5, 2006 by Turntable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigted Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 (edited) If I could email Chuck D and get him to post on this board, he'd probably agree with all the things I said in this thread, he's not as bitter towards the Sugar Hill Gang or new school rappers as KRS or some ol' school rappers are, his beef is towards BET/MTV/Viacom that ignore playing certain rappers on air, he said that he recorded a song with Nelly in one of his terrordomes last year and that he's a very nice guy, it never came out though, basically what I'm saying in this thread is what he says already, read his terrordomes, there's certain things he might not like about hip-hop now or even back then but there's certain thngs about any other genre of music that could be improved as well, nothing or nobody is perfect.... As wack as many say 50 Cent he still is a hip-hop artist, he's still an mc, just a sucka mc, that's all! :willvspaparazzi: FP ain't Common just like Jay-Z ain't Common, FP ain't Jay-Z either, every mc is different, it depends who you like when you consider them dope or wack, no matter who you like or don't like they're still hip-hop artists, that'd be as stupid as saying Britney ain't a pop singer even if I don't like her.... If hip-hop only has gangsta rappers, conscious rappers, or squeaky clean party rappers dominating the airwaves specificially, it'll get boring, it needs the balance it has to stay the top genre, we're starting to get balance again, we got Kanye, 50, and FP as the top selling mcs of 2005, that's what makes it better than other genres of music, if hip-hop had no conscious rappers in it, hip-hop would've been a novelty back then, NWA and Public Enemy brought in an audience that wanted more than party music, and if there was no party rappers, hip-hop'll sound too preachy and nerdy, kids who wanna have a good time wouldn't listen to it, it needs to have everything, that's why Chuck D has Flava Flav in Public Enemy, the comic relief of Flav compliments the thoughtful consciousness that Chuck has, that's why they worked out so well..... btw, take a look at what somebody on the Public Enemy forum said about LL Cool J, it reminds me of stuff that a lot of us'd say about 50 Cent, I guess he didn't read the terrordomes where Chuck gives LL props, some just hate everything and anything that gets airplay, even the pioneers of the game: "He should have a chat with Dead Prez, Krs or P.E. to get his head in order. If he could put his mind to it he would be great for the movement instead of always thinking about sales........" This is what I replied back, this could apply to 50 too 'cause he does respect conscious rappers like KRS-ONE, he just says dumb stuff to hype up his album that's all, now in no way am I saying he's on LL's level, I'm just stating that maybe people hate on 50 too hard, Kanye's just doing hype here too, I don't think he really hates 50: "LL does respect what Chuck D and KRS do politically but he said in an interview that he's different from them and he does his own thing. Hip-hop would be boring if we had every mc being political to me, just like it'd be with all the club tracks" Edited January 5, 2006 by bigted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turntable Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 (edited) If hip-hop only has gangsta rappers, conscious rappers, or squeaky clean party rappers dominating the airwaves specificially, it'll get boring, it needs the balance it has to stay the top genre, we're starting to get balance again, we got Kanye, 50, and FP as the top selling mcs of 2005, that's what makes it better than other genres of music, if hip-hop had no conscious rappers in it, hip-hop would've been a novelty back then, NWA and Public Enemy brought in an audience that wanted more than party music, and if there was no party rappers, hip-hop'll sound too preachy and nerdy, kids who wanna have a good time wouldn't listen to it, it needs to have everything, that's why Chuck D has Flava Flav in Public Enemy, the comic relief of Flav compliments the thoughtful consciousness that Chuck has, that's why they worked out so well..... Exactly. I have no proplem with Nelly almost only doing Party Tracks. And I have no problem with for example Young Jeezy only doing Gangsta Rap. And I also cant blame tham for dominating the airwaves. It`s no they`r fault. The Media is what sucks today. Back in the day there was for example De La Sould for the party Tracks and NWA for the Gangsta and Public Enemy for the Consicius stuff. And everything got atention and airplay. That`s what shoudl be today. Its not Nelly`s fault that he gets airplay and AZ doesnt. Andd we also cant blame him or 50 for stuff like that. It needs more balance,meaning not that for example 50 should do more diffrent things but that the media should alow more diffrent things. Becaus artits like the Ying Yang Tiwns and Nella are so dominating we diss them allot. But that`s kinda stupid caus they are just doing they`r thing. (As far as 50 goes,I wont stop dissing him caus I feel he realy sold his soul. He dissed Ja for singing and now he does it too n stuff.). Why can`t we just recognise that? We may not like it but that doesnt has anything to do with it. For example Ted doesn`t like The Clan. Doesnt mean he dont respect them. I mean why can`t we all be as open as Chuck or AZ is? Chuck is speaking the Truth when he say`s it isnt Nelly fault but Medias. And he isn`t cloes minded infron of new artits caus he loves Hip Hop in all his ways. I recently saw a interview with AZ and they asked him what he liked from the recent year. He said that Cassidy`s "I`m A Hustla" and the Ying Yang Twins "Wisper Song" realy affected him caus it was so fresh stuff. And LL said mayn times that he loves the movements The Diplomats, Terrorsquad and The Murda Inc Crew are bulding up. I agree with them. Some of us may not like it but it`s the truth..Hip Hop is growing so fast and we cant blame new artits coming up and do stuff. You cant say they have no love for da game just caus they come up during the Hip Hop Hype that is going on in the moment. They just have a better chance to get deals now and who are we judge if they have no love for the game. Edited January 5, 2006 by Turntable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigted Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 (edited) Hip-hop would be wack if 50 Cent or Will sold 10 million and nobody else sold anything 'cause no matter how much you may love/hate 50 Cent or Will, hip-hop is more than just one person/style, 90% of the videos can't look the same, it's many styles, hip-hop would be boring like pop 'cause every pop singer is singing the same things, that's why pop music ain't as popular as it once was, basically a lot of the other genres have a lot of artists sounding the same that's why they ain't as popular as hip-hop, hip-hop has always been fresh where different people could relate to different parts of it. I like a lil' bit of each but most only like a certain part of hip-hop like all gangsta, all party, or all conscious, but the one thing they got in common is that they're all hip-hop fans, and I think if it gets to the point where only gangsta rap or clean rap dominates is on the airwaves, it'll kill hip-hop no matter how much some might like it, there's starting to be more balance though, you got the Black Eyed Peas/Will for clean fun raps, you got Kanye/Common for conscious rap, and you got 50 Cent/Game doing gangsta rap, then you got Young Jeezy/Mike Jones doing crunk rap, if the media keeps the balance, it'll be aight .... Edited January 5, 2006 by bigted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted January 6, 2006 Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 Exactly...everyone is diferent. if someone likes an aritst you don't..that doesn't make them WRONG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigted Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 (edited) Now back to the topic, there ain't gonna be no Kanye/50 beef, Kanye said in this recent interview on Allhiphop.com that he has no problems with 50, he's right how media twists comments to start a beef... Kanye shouldn't call somebody else's music garbage anyway 'cause it ain't like all his songs are perfect, nobody has a perfect catalog, I think that was just hype and it works 'cause it got us talking, I noticed that there when I was looking at Will's article: http://www.allhiphop.com/features/?ID=1291 "AllHipHop.com: Now check this out, in 2005, 50 Cent said that he made it possible for you to be successful. Care to comment on that? Kanye West: Yeah that's my boy. People distort our comments because, people just don't speak honestly about a person. I could say a statement that...it's all in how you word something. I could say a statement like that about [Jay-Z’s] Blueprint album that could come off differently or could be taken in the wrong way. But that doesn't mean that’s reality. I don't have a problem with anybody. And even if a person has a problem with me I don't have a problem with them." Edited January 7, 2006 by bigted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpinJack AJ Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 Kanye has a big mouth and becuz of that...it's easy 4 him 2 contradict himself. I don't even take him seriously. His new single with Adam Levine might be dope...but that's all he's got going 4 himself these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigted Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 (edited) Kanye ain't the only one contradicting himself, I think a lot of mcs young and old contradict themselves, I only like KRS for his music 'cause I notice how he makes a lot of ignorant and offensive comments in interviews, but once he starts slacking off in his music I won't feel him anymore at all, that's why I think Will and only a handful of other mcs are real on and off the mic, it's like I'd buy another "Born To Reign" if Will continues to be a real person, I think being a real person is worth more than anything.... Edited January 7, 2006 by bigted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxFly Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 My overall thing is this. After opinions are stated and different emcees and rappers are compared, it comes down 2 one main thing 2 me. Who has heart? When 2Pac, Fresh Prince, LL Cool J, Rakim, Talib Kweli, Kel Spencer and Chuck D write a rhyme, where are they going with it? They are doing it 4 da love of da game. They are expressing ideas and trying 2 make better...or at least make since of life and the world. When they aren't doing that, they are entertaining us, rocking the mic, or making quality music. But where is the heart in alot of commerical rap? 50 Cent isn't trying 2 make anyone think. Kanye West isn't trying 2 take his skillz 2 the next level. Ludacris isn't changing the world. Puffy isn't helping a hopless soul get thru' 1 more day. They don't care about art. They just care about making money and being famous. Without heart...without love, without a desire 2 create something incredible...u don't have Hip-Hop....u have commercial rap. U can like all J-Kwon's and G-Units u like. That's fine with me. Just don't try 2 tell me that Lil Jon is doing the same thing that Common Sense is doing. I'm not stuck in a time warp...i just won't settle 4 less than good music by talented artists. And most of the time, u won't find that on the charts or on the radio. This should have ended the thread right there... I can't begin to understand what more there would be to say. I don't have a problem with anybody. George Bush doesn't care about black people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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