Mike Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 :when I posted on an underground hip-hop site saying that I like Will, they called me a fag and need to listen to some real hip-hop its kinda sad actually, thats why i dont really tell people i like will except for people that i know wont care but on kanye, im glad he said that- g-unt pisses me off, their so annoying and skill-less. im glad the game got out of it. and maxfly is right, he didnt cross the line at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bart5 Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Why rappers can't focus in their music and stop this stupid critizin...50 probably will answer that and blah blah blah :stars: :word: :wickedwisdom: :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpinJack AJ Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Frenetic, your former posts totally support that u love commercial rap. Which is fine, but don't tell me that Puffy, Eminem, Kanye West, Ludacris, Lil' Jon, etc are any near on a level of Fresh Prince, LL Cool J, Ice Cube, Talib Kweli, Public Enemy, etc. I would love 2 see my favorite emcees crack the mainstream again. It has nothing 2 do with what's underground, true skool, gangsta, or straight commerical. It's about brains and quality music. However, it's a FACT that nearly all commercial rap is trash...PERIOD. How u gonna tell me that Ludacris's flow is as dope as LL Cool J's? How u gonna tell me that Kanye West's lyrics are anywhere near the level of Chuck D's? Let's really not start this all over again. Look at your past posts, they support nothing but rappers who have cracked the top 10 in the past 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 what's wrong with that? he's entitled to like, and listen to whoever he wants to like, and listen to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpinJack AJ Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 I'm not saying there's anything wrong with liking different music....i'm saying there's something wrong when certain members flip out whenever i spit on the face of commerical rap. Lambert-style attacks aimed an one person over and over again just become routine and rediculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 ahhh...I see your point, to some extent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigted Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 (edited) I didn't see anything wrong with what Frenetic said honestly, nobody's top 10 list is a fact that everybody has to like, I'd consider it garbage when somebody puts Eminem in their top 10 favorites, I wouldn't go as far as calling them fags though 'cause that's their taste, I could argue with them till I pass out tellin' them they don't know real hip-hop and they'll still feel the same way so what's the point, "Wave 'Em Off" if you don't like their opinion, but people consider it garbage and won't consider me a real hip-hop fan if I put FP in my top 10 favorites, everybody should have their own opinions but shouldn't have to constantly beef over them FP likes some mainstream mcs Jay-Z and underground mcs like Dead Prez, now that's the definition of a real hip-hop head ..... Yes a lot think commercial rap is garbage but some people think all commercial rap is garbage including the real mcs in it like FP and LL Cool J 'cause of the thought that they're only in it for making more money than they're beloved underground mcs are or for the fact they'll actually collab with some mainstream rappers they don't like, some consider Common a sellout for doing a whole album with Kanye West, you wanna see cats like Common blow up but some people hate mainstream so much that they'll diss their favorite underground mc if he blows up, some just think that anybody that goes platinum is a sell-out before they actually heard the music, and at the same time a lot of people who listen to mainstream hip-hop ignore underground.... If all of FP's albums flopped and he never performed on MTV, maybe more underground fans would love him but then commercial fans wouldn't care for him, what's a man to do, lol?.... He wasn't necessarily referring to you 'cause you give everything a listen before you diss and that's your opinion but you open up your mind to everything out there, some just put themselves in a box to a certain thing and if it's anything else they won't like it before they even give it a chance, you can't speak for every real hip-hop head and say that every hip-hop head don't like Kanye West and Ludacris 'cause that's not true, that's how you feel... LL Cool J collabed with Ludacris and Chuck D said in one of his recent terrordomes that he likes the messages Kanye West gives in his music so that means they ain't real? You could think that Lil' Kim is trashy, I might even agree some with that, but hey FP collabed with her so she must not be that wack, and if somebody thinks she's the greatest that's their opinion, they're not fags if they like somebody I don't, they shouldn't diss who I like though.... btw, as much as I think KRS is the greatest mc ever, I'm dissapointed that he'd say it's Sugar Hill Gang's fault for turning hip-hop from a true artform to a watered down pop rap scene, sometimes he sounds too much like a hip-hop purist I must admit but then he looks hypocritical for giving props to Eminem and Dr. Dre, how could you claim to be real hip-hop acting that way? I mean Sugar Hill Gang done more positive things for hip-hop than Eminem and Dr. Dre could ever do, Eminem, Dr. Dre, and even KRS wouldn't be able to make a living off of hip-hop if it wasn't for Sugar Hill Gang, KRS would still be homeless today or even dead, he should kissing their feet not stepping on them like that, they help open the doors for everyone, I wonder what'd conclude in KRS' logic that Sugar Hill Gang ruined hip-hop, deep down that dissapoints me a lil' bit that KRS would talk like that, ever since I heard that speech audio I've lost some respect for him as a person, that's foul to say that, just as ignorant if not more ignorant than some of the stuff Kanye says.... Edited January 4, 2006 by bigted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenetic Posted January 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 AJ// Let's trn it around, how many rappers do u have in you top10 that is from the last 5 years? BTW, ur completely wrong, i do defend new rappers, but in my top 10? NO. Here is my Top 20 for ya: 01 Rakim 02 KRS-ONE 03 Kool G Rap 04 Biggie 05 Jay-Z 06 Slick Rick 07 Nas 08 2 Pac 09 Big Daddy Kane 10 Common 11 Chuck D 12 Melle Mel 13 Ice Cube 14 Big L 15 Fresh Prince 16 Q-Tip 17 Talib Kweli 18 Immortal Technique 19 LL Cool J 20 Mos Def You do the year count. With that being said it doesn't mean i sit around only listening to rakim or Biggie.. that means i thikn they're are the best (most skilled) rappers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigted Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 (edited) That's actually pretty much similar to my top 20 favorite mcs of all time, except for a couple, I try to give new stuff a listen but I can't really hold it up to the ol' school mcs but at least I give it a listen, basically I'm trying to not diss new school rappers so much anymore 'cause I don't like people dissin' my favorite ol' school rappers so much, maybe if I stop dissin' maybe they'll learn to open up to my opinion, it's useless to fight forever over it... Edited January 4, 2006 by bigted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turntable Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 (edited) I don`t get that hating on the new school Mc`s. Yes, maybe they aren`t as ood as the legends. But maybe the will be someday. And even If they won`t.. There are still good ones out there. Aj.. You diss most of the new rapper by saying that they aren`t as good as the old ones. Well.. I New Edition as good as the Jackson 5 or The Tips? No way. Still you like them. Whats the big difrence? Why am I actualy the only that has completly no issues with new school mc`s? Caus I`m from the new school generation to, or what? If there comes out a good record I`ll buy it. Even tho his skills aren`t as good as LL`s. And even about skils you could go on about for years. Give me a Definition. Could LL make a Songs like the Wisper Song? Could Will spit it like Young Jeezy? And reverse. I also think that Will and LL and Chuck and Rakim and them are above them. Don`t get me wrong, I hate the Ying Yang Twins and Jeezy,lol. But that`s just my opinion. Who am I to judge about that? Oh and one more thing. You know there are MC`s out ther that ofcourse aren`t as good as Chuck or LL but they can be someday. Let say for example Cassidy. Dude has a great flow. He`s on his second album now. Now people gonna say "Yes good flow, but his lyrics never are like LL`s". True. But you gotta see it this way: Where LL or Will lyrical genius they are now back on they`r second albums? No. I could mention more like Jadakiss,Aasim, Jean Grea or J.R. Writer or Caddilac Tah.. But I think you get the point. They have so much potential. End if you look at they`r older stuff and they recent stuff you`ll see how they are growing allready. Especaly Cassidy. Edited January 4, 2006 by Turntable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfuqua23 Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 I'd consider it garbage when somebody puts Eminem in their top 10 favorites, everybody should have their own opinions but shouldn't have to constantly beef over them Yes a lot think commercial rap is garbage but some people think all commercial rap is garbage including the real mcs in it like FP and LL Cool J 'cause of the thought that they're only in it for making more money than they're beloved underground mcs are or for the fact they'll actually collab with some mainstream rappers they don't like, some consider Common a sellout for doing a whole album with Kanye West, you wanna see cats like Common blow up but some people hate mainstream so much that they'll diss their favorite underground mc if he blows up, some just think that anybody that goes platinum is a sell-out before they actually heard the music, and at the same time a lot of people who listen to mainstream hip-hop ignore underground.... If all of FP's albums flopped and he never performed on MTV, maybe more underground fans would love him but then commercial fans wouldn't care for him, what's a man to do, lol?.... LL Cool J collabed with Ludacris they're not fags if they like somebody I don't, they shouldn't diss who I like though.... they help open the doors for everyone, I wonder what'd conclude in KRS' logic that Sugar Hill Gang ruined hip-hop, deep down that dissapoints me a lil' bit that KRS would talk like that, ever since I heard that speech audio I've lost some respect for him as a person, that's foul to say that, just as ignorant if not more ignorant than some of the stuff Kanye says.... Top Ten Eminem??? (eww!) - Ted you just ate your own words. That's THEIR top ten FAVORITE. You graduated high school, so you should know what favorite means. "prefered above others". I don't even seriously follow every of these artists in my Top Ten Favorites, but they're there. 1. DJ Jazzy Jeff & Fresh Prince 2. Rakim 3. Talib Kweli 4. NaS 5. 2pac 6. The Game 7. Mobb Deep 8. LL Cool J (yet I don't have any albums except "The Definition", but a lot of what I do hear, I like) That's really all the Hip Hop artists that are truly favorites. I've got some Jay-Z, Memphis Bleek, a DMX, a Kanye, P. Diddy & Fam, Dr. Dre, Lil Bow Wow, Various Artists, even a couple 50 Cent. And not eveyrthing is bought, maybe burned. Outta the others mention, 50 Cent is the only one. Some are a regular, a sometimes, a rarely, or maybe never again; but it's in my collection. Anybody wanna knock me for "The Game" or "Mobb Deep"? I don't even agree with everything some of the artists I'm fans of do sometimes. Commercial?, Underground?, Me? Huh? What? - Divided yet again. Hip Hop vs Rap, Commercial/Mainstream Artists vs Underground Artists, and now even the fans themselves. They may sound stupid, but this mainstream/underground is almost like the earthly terms themselves. Everybody can see the stream, but for underground they've got to dig. Some underground sneaks up tho. There's more underground than is mainstream, but what's seen first? If it wasn't for the underground, there wouldn't be a mainstream. (insert whatever artists you think did it) Eventually, some of that underground turned into mainstream. Now, fan base. How does that work? I'm commercial for Will Smith, I'm underground for Hieroglyphics, or better yet Da Brakes. Hmm, nobody is certain about Talib Kweli, but he has fans notheless. Perfect example. A fan is a fan is a fan. Please, let's just leave it at that. Just call somebody a commercial fan if they like everything commercial or an underground fan if they like everything underground. Maybe they get a lil offended cuz they don't think about that stuff. Just what they like. And it just so happens to be all commercial or all underground, yet that never bothered them. Common ain't even all that to me. He seems to be a hype man now. For the New Years at MTV, the interviewer asked him where Hip Hop was going (because he was a true and real artist, and those others weren't, yet and still MTV manages to promote such "garbage". *This just in*, it's called "Music TeleVision". So they air music, period. Maybe it's some biased stuff going on in the office, who knows. But it's the people that vote it. Maybe here's another statistic that comes into play. More "mainstream fans" have computers or phones, or whatever than "underground fans". Or time, or care or whatever for that matter. Does Little Brother even get to MTV? No, but maybe they didn't want to send it their. (I couldn't tell you if they did or not) Perhaps the networks aren't as hypocritical as some people may think. All day, you see on BET or 106 & Park, shiny stuff, women gyrating and doing more shaking than most powerful earthquakes do to land, the occassion all up in my grill shots, the blank out of more than half a verse, etc. That is BET's average or maybe more than, musical viewings. And then you see on 'Jeff Chronicles', "What's wrong with Hip Hop?" I unfortunately missed it. VH1's version didn't really help me much either. It wasn't anything I hadn't heard before. Does mainstream ignore underground? You are right in that sense Ted. But I think there is more to it. It's easily shown on this board too. New Kel Spencer. Not eveyrbody is interested in a new. Hieroglyphics even. Tim converted some peole over to listening. Myself included. (one day I just asked him the best to check out, and I really liked it) It's always going to be hard for underground to be heard. With MTV and BET, it's there for you easily if you wanna check it out. With underground, it's the same idea, but a bit harder. So when somebody acts as a MTV or BET with these underground artists, of course people will be skeptical. Say you was a fan of Will in your early years. You lost track of him and for maybe 25 years, you ain't heard nothing. But Will's still going. So you missed out, but you still love Will's music. At least what you heard before. Somebody mentions Will, and you go to that more easier than say Pep Love. It's always harder as an underground artist (of course it depends on the difficult the artist themselves feel they have) and the fans too, again much like the artist. LL & Ludacris - Here he is collabing Juelz Santana and Freeway and everybody is going nuts or at least feelin it. LL even said it himself he wanted the cars and the girls and all that stuff. All he did was get in game and do it. He didn't change who he was or what he rep'd. "For y'all that don't know the LL stands for Ladies Love, I'm a do a song that will smack you right in the face with it. He did "I Need Love". Has anybody ever heard a rap ballad since? (I'd really like to know cuz it's had to keep up with every single bit of Hip Hop) Of course he had songs for the ladies before hand, but that was just a whole new level people didn't think was in him. KRS One and the logic - How did Sugarhill Gang ruin Hip Hop? (how did KRS One say it exactly when he stated that SHG ruined Hip Hop. I'm almost afraid that maybe you read it wrong.) Like you said Ted, KRS is a "Hip Hop Purist". So Hip Hop in it's truly pure form goes back to all elements in one atmosphere. DJ, Emcee (at the time less), Breakdance, and Graffiti Art. It was a place to go and to enjoy. Nobody knew about it but the people that wanted to be around it. That lady that found the Sugarhill Gang, may not have been the very 1st with the idea, but she's credit as so. Greed has apparently been around forever. Survival even. How is it that the human being themselves got them dependent on money?, I have no idea. "Wow! All these people came here to see a show and have fun." From there, I guess a price was over everyone's head. Some of Hip Hop is not free no more. But think, every single one of those elements, people can still do without a dime, just as they did when Hip Hop 1st came about. Seems like the elements aren't as respected or just what money can do for somebody. It's very evident today. I think the reason KRS One said SHG ruined Hip Hop is for several reasons. SHG used/stole/??? rhymes from Grandmaster Caz for "Rapper's Delight". They said "yes" to that woman. Hip Hop is ruined because it is a worldwide phenomenon? Maybe KRS thinks it should've stayed in New York or more particularly the Bronx, I don't know. Even if it wasn't SHG, that lady could've got someone else. No question. So if KRS wants to point the finger at somebody, maybe it should be that woman too. KRS One is confusing sometimes, but I commend you for following, analyzing and trying to understand him anyway. It is hard. Have can he criticize the beginnings when he gives props to Eminem for his song "Lose Yourself"? Or Nas even. I don't remember much of anything about his say on West Coast artists, or even international. But I know he's stated opinon about them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigted Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Well whether you put Eminem or FP in your top 10 all-time lists, it'd be that they're your favorites, that's why I said that, you really can't judge who's the top mcs unless you listen to every mc in the world, and nobody has, it's all opinion, I have about 200 CDs, 100 cassettes, and some stuff downloaded but it's not all hip-hop, I like a lil' bit of other music too but hip-hop is the top choice though of preference for me, I ain't gonna front though I got a Backstreet Boys cassette, lol. Even Kool Moe Dee's book is opinion 'cause I'm sure he hasn't listen to everybody but I bet he's listened to more than most fans would so it's easier to understand his opinion 'cause he's been down with hip-hop since the beginning, he's probably heard about 1000 mcs. Now if KRS is gonna discredit Sugar Hill Gang 'cause they weren't the original rap group, then he'd have to discredit Eminem 'cause he wasn't the original hardcore white rapper, there was many groups that never got signed from the golden era way before Sugar Hill Gang just like there was many hardcore white rappers who never got signed before Eminem, and Dr. Dre has a team of ghostwriters but supposedly 40% of the hip-hop community has them too, so what exactly is pure? KRS also said in that speech that the rappers who sell 10 million, 20 million albums don't know what hip-hop is, that's obviously a biased statement probably from his beef with Nelly, but Nelly knows hip-hop and so do the other rap artists who've sold 10 million, 20 albums like JJFP, MC Hammer, 2Pac, Jay-Z, Biggie, Beastie Boys, LL Cool J, and even Eminem and Vanilla Ice, they all know hip-hop, it's just the matter of opinion of who you like and don't like, like as wack as I think Nelly, Eminem, and Vanilla Ice are they're still hip-hop or if somebody disses JJFP, LL, and MC Hammer, they're still hip-hop, like A-Plus said on "Stay On Your Toes": "Nowadays I hear the same crap Complain rap is trendy not to give anybody with a name dap When did that start It sound childish You went to college but I think you need some extra mileage Underground cats disrespect who that don't listen to (Yeah!) If you looked at my CD rack they'd (you'll) probably diss me to That's so weak Don't speak when a niggarole creep Or I'm finna go deep I heard a MC in a cipher straight lyin' Damn the cryin', talkin' bout real Hip-Hop's dyin' That's some dumb **** That's what I was thinkin' (Uh-huh) But I didn't say nothin' to him cause I knew that I been drinkin' He must be blind as hell Hip-Hop is alive and well He ain't got the mind to tell" :word: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turntable Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 (edited) Well whether you put Eminem or FP in your top 10 all-time lists, it'd be that they're your favorites, that's why I said that, you really can't judge who's the top mcs unless you listen to every mc in the world, and nobody has, it's all opinion, I have about 200 CDs, 100 cassettes, and some stuff downloaded but it's not all hip-hop, I like a lil' bit of other music too but hip-hop is the top choice though of preference for me, I ain't gonna front though I got a Backstreet Boys cassette, lol. Even Kool Moe Dee's book is opinion 'cause I'm sure he hasn't listen to everybody but I bet he's listened to more than most fans would so it's easier to understand his opinion 'cause he's been down with hip-hop since the beginning, he's probably heard about 1000 mcs. Now if KRS is gonna discredit Sugar Hill Gang 'cause they weren't the original rap group, then he'd have to discredit Eminem 'cause he wasn't the original hardcore white rapper, there was many groups that never got signed from the golden era way before Sugar Hill Gang just like there was many hardcore white rappers who never got signed before Eminem, and Dr. Dre has a team of ghostwriters but supposedly 40% of the hip-hop community has them too, so what exactly is pure? KRS also said in that speech that the rappers who sell 10 million, 20 million albums don't know what hip-hop is, that's obviously a biased statement probably from his beef with Nelly, but Nelly knows hip-hop and so do the other rap artists who've sold 10 million, 20 albums like JJFP, MC Hammer, 2Pac, Jay-Z, Biggie, Beastie Boys, LL Cool J, and even Eminem and Vanilla Ice, they all know hip-hop, it's just the matter of opinion of who you like and don't like, like as wack as I think Nelly, Eminem, and Vanilla Ice are they're still hip-hop or if somebody disses JJFP, LL, and MC Hammer, they're still hip-hop, like A-Plus said on "Stay On Your Toes": :word: Edited January 4, 2006 by Turntable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest renagade_tim Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 "beef" starts because of things like this they think that just because they think they are good that htye are the best ok like Kanye whinin about not winnin a grammy there are more better things like world hunger i like his music i am jus tired of his attitude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigted Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 (edited) I doubt that even AJ with his big music collection has heard something from every hip-hop artist on this list, they list 50 Cent too btw so he is a hip-hop artist even though most of us on this board agree with Kanye and don't like him, lol: http://www.ohhla.com/all.html We really don't know who the best mc is if we haven't listened to everybody but most likely the ones who get on the radio are the best ones in the game 'cause it's like basketball, there's millions who play but only a handful actually make the NBA, There's probably some who ain't in the game that could compete with the big boys but most of them would get crushed, that's why they're amateurs, it's like what LL said in "4,3,2,1":"When you wanna get on the mic/With all the big boys and live up to the real hype/it's like picking up a ball and playing with Mike/Swinging with Ken Griffey or challanging Roy to a fight/snappin' you amateur mcs/don't you know I make the dream team touring overseas?".... btw, if some ol' school hip-hop fans like AJ wanna complain about rappers glorifying money and jewlery, what about LL Cool J's "Walking With A Panther" cover or Eric B. and Rakim's "Paid In Full" cover? They looked like Cash Money Millionaire covers of today.... Slick Rick sporting all that jewlery in his videos just like Jay-Z does now? Money makes the world go 'round but everybody has more to express than that if they're really human, there's nothing wrong with celebrating success, whether you're a manager at a store or a famous rapper.... Now as far as what Turntable said in there, yes Will has developed as an artist quite a bit from the early JJFP days, sure he had a great flow and the songs were great but Will has covered more topics on his recent albums than he did back then, he's shown that he's more than just another party rapper and that's made him relevant longer than most from the ol' school era, he always brings new content to the table, as much as I like KRS and Rakim but they haven't really brought anything new to the table lately, they still could flow better than ever but ultimately that's why they're not as famous as they once were, they still rhyme the same things they rhymed about 15 years ago, that's fine with them though if they wanna stay true to themselves and their few loyal fans... Some of the ol' school fans might of turned on Will 'cause he ain't doing another "He's The DJ"/"Homebase" album, but maybe they stayed loyal to KRS 'cause he's doing the same things he did the early BDP albums, Rakim's still rhyming the same things he rhymed about on the early Eric B. and Rakim albums.... Who knows maybe Ludacris and 50 Cent might develop as they get older too with their song content if they're gonna stay in the game as long as Will or else their careers will end soon... Edited January 4, 2006 by bigted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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