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Anyone Watching The Presidential Debate?

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VP Debate's On...

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Biden was on point.

but i think palin held her ground, she didnt do as bad as i thought she would but.....shes no biden.

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Georgia and The Ukraine were not part of the Eastern Bloc, they were provinces of the Russian Empire. In fact, Russia was born in The Ukraine. Having influence there is one thing, bringing them into NATO is quite another. Putin would react to that in the same manner as we would react to an independent Puerto Rico aligning with Russia.

As for your fly swatter metaphor, how else would you expect a superpower to react? How did we react to Afghanistan, Iraq, even Grenada and Panama? The bottom line is Georgia is the one who did the bombarding and invading first, emboldened by our influence. That alone should tell us to proceed cautiously, not announce to the world our intention to add Georgia to NATO and provoke the Russians further.

We DID go overboard in our response (or pre-emption in the case of Iraq). We cannot ignore we've been overly aggressive in our own foreign military action. What you do indirectly bring up is that we do have a problem with our credibility now. Our country's actions compared to that of Russia's are not that much morally better. We do have historical precidence though, to see we must return to being a international leader of many countries, rather than a heavyweight throwing weight around. In many ways, the actions of Russia have made us look in the mirror.

The United States is at its best when we head off other countries through intense, straightforward multi-lateral action (in diplomacy). This includes haste acceptance of a country that is vulnerable to Russia's own domineering plans. We have only provoked Russia by acting complacent with their attitude to the world (not calling alarm to their contracts with Iran, our lovely president's assertion he saw Putin's soul, etc).

We have a common agreement not to start wars by throwing weight around, but I do think we also can allow for wars to start when we withdrawal our focus and stance on foreign affairs of a former super-power.

Also, the claim about strong-men in Russia's culture is refuted by former Russian Presidential candidate, Garry Kasparov, in an interview a year ago on Real Time with Bill Maher :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvMHjXMiyy4

Edited by Bob

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Biden was great last night. Palin wasn't bad herself. The bar was set so low for her that she would have had to accidentally set her podium on fire to not surpass it. However, I think it was clear that many of her responses were overly rehearsed and many of her answers made not sense and only tangentially related to the actual question that was asked. Then again, the art of debating is all about answering a question without actually answering the question, so she did well.

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I thought Biden was outstanding, but of course the big story was Palin. Max is right, the bar was so low that she would have had to try and fail. I think that she did fine for the most part, regardless of the bar, but with the bar being low she seemed quite good. The one thing I thought was pretty sketchy on her part was her VP powers response. She looked downright panicked by that question and her response was questionable to say the least.

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I thought Biden was outstanding, but of course the big story was Palin. Max is right, the bar was so low that she would have had to try and fail. I think that she did fine for the most part, regardless of the bar, but with the bar being low she seemed quite good. The one thing I thought was pretty sketchy on her part was her VP powers response. She looked downright panicked by that question and her response was questionable to say the least.

Yeah I think Palin did better than expected but Biden had the slight edge overall

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Biden clearly won the debate on Thursday night. I agree with Max that the bar was set so low for Palin that the simple fact she made it through the entire debate was a win for her. She was a lightweight on the issues while Biden danced circles around her.

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Georgia and The Ukraine were not part of the Eastern Bloc, they were provinces of the Russian Empire. In fact, Russia was born in The Ukraine. Having influence there is one thing, bringing them into NATO is quite another. Putin would react to that in the same manner as we would react to an independent Puerto Rico aligning with Russia.

As for your fly swatter metaphor, how else would you expect a superpower to react? How did we react to Afghanistan, Iraq, even Grenada and Panama? The bottom line is Georgia is the one who did the bombarding and invading first, emboldened by our influence. That alone should tell us to proceed cautiously, not announce to the world our intention to add Georgia to NATO and provoke the Russians further.

We DID go overboard in our response (or pre-emption in the case of Iraq). We cannot ignore we've been overly aggressive in our own foreign military action. What you do indirectly bring up is that we do have a problem with our credibility now. Our country's actions compared to that of Russia's are not that much morally better. We do have historical precidence though, to see we must return to being a international leader of many countries, rather than a heavyweight throwing weight around. In many ways, the actions of Russia have made us look in the mirror.

The United States is at its best when we head off other countries through intense, straightforward multi-lateral action (in diplomacy). This includes haste acceptance of a country that is vulnerable to Russia's own domineering plans. We have only provoked Russia by acting complacent with their attitude to the world (not calling alarm to their contracts with Iran, our lovely president's assertion he saw Putin's soul, etc).

We have a common agreement not to start wars by throwing weight around, but I do think we also can allow for wars to start when we withdrawal our focus and stance on foreign affairs of a former super-power.

Also, the claim about strong-men in Russia's culture is refuted by former Russian Presidential candidate, Garry Kasparov, in an interview a year ago on Real Time with Bill Maher :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvMHjXMiyy4

I can't argue with much of this except to say that our actions compared to that of Russia's are not morally better at all. I agree that we need to keep or even step up our influence and involvement with Georgia, but I reemphasize that bringing them into NATO is a HUGE mistake, and IS tantamount to "throwing our weight around".

And Kasparov is WRONG! He has an ideal that he would LIKE Russia to live up to, but history defies him. Note that he uses other countries to attempt to prove his point. That is because the history of his own country is that of strongmen (and ONE helluva strongwoman) throughout, clear back to before the reign of Ivan The Terrible, and beset with examples of weakness bringing only failure, chaos and death.

Oh, and there is nothing "former" about that superpower.

Edited by Cozmo D

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I can't argue with much of this except to say that our actions compared to that of Russia's are not morally better at all. I agree that we need to keep or even step up our influence and involvement with Georgia, but I reemphasize that bringing them into NATO is a HUGE mistake, and IS tantamount to "throwing our weight around".

And Kasparov is WRONG! He has an ideal that he would LIKE Russia to live up to, but history defies him. Note that he uses other countries to attempt to prove his point. That is because the history of his own country is that of strongmen (and ONE helluva strongwoman) throughout, clear back to before the reign of Ivan The Terrible, and beset with examples of weakness bringing only failure, chaos and death.

Oh, and there is nothing "former" about that superpower.

Well we agree we weren't morally better. We have to agree to disagree on NATO because I think it is the definition of peacefully, yet forcefully working to provide international contempt for Russia's actions.

I think Kasparov explained it well. You can't take Russian polling seriously in a police state. Also, I believe Kasparov would better understand his country than we could ever as U.S. citizens.

Also, regarding the argument about "former":

France calls themselves a superpower and us a hyper-power. Regardless, there is a difference in influence, per capita GDP, and overall perception of the two countries. Russia is a former superpower. Or they are a current superpower and we are a hyper-power. In any case, there is quite a difference in its former status to the current one it holds.

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Biden, Palin Debate, Rap Community Reacts

Published Friday, October 03, 2008 1:02 PM

By Chris Richburg and Nolan Strong

As voters assess the impact of Thursday’s vice presidential debate, representatives of the Hip-Hop community are sharing their thoughts on debaters Joe Biden and Sarah Palin and whether or not they helped or harmed presidential hopefuls Barack Obama and John McCain.

Opinions vary regarding who won the vice presidential debate as the candidates answered questions pertaining to the economy, defense, foreign policy and climate change.

"Sarah Palin did a respectable job in debating Senator Biden but in my opinion Joe Biden was a lot more polished and detailed with his answers in the debate," Houston's Chamillionaire told AllHipHop.com "There were many times where I completely agreed with Joe Biden’s stance against John McCain’s views on different issues. I don't feel like she was as sharp in her defense of McCain's views at certain points as Biden was defending Obama's views. I feel Biden definitely made a better case of why America should vote Obama.”

Senator Biden appealed to middle class Americans, as he aggressively linked McCain’s policies with those of President George W. Bush and his administration.

"The economic policies of the last eight years are the worst we've ever had," Delaware's Senator Biden said.

Palin countered her opponent by directly facing television cameras and addressing viewers as she touted herself and McCain as a “team of mavericks” and attacked Obama for wanting to meet with rogue world leaders without preconditions.

Legendary Hip-Hop mogul and activist Russell Simmons felt that Palin was given a pass and that her performance was less than stellar.

"I guess the bar was so low for Sara Palin that conservatives think she did okay," Simmons revealed to AllHipHop.com. "The truth is that she's an absolute disaster with no experience. Had she been a man Senator Biden would have killed her and made it even more clear what a lightweight she is. He's a seasoned pro on the issues and she's a programmed publicity stunt. Hopefully some of the independents could see what I saw."

During the evening, Palin accused Obama of being inconsistent and claimed that there was “too much finger pointing” regarding the war, the economy and other critical issues.

She also said it would be a challenge for Obama and Biden to be taken seriously as an agent for change on the world stage, due to their policies.

"There have been huge blunders in the war," Alaska Governor Palin stated. "There have been huge blunders throughout this administration, as there are with every administration. "But for a ticket that wants to talk about change and looking into the future, there's too much finger-pointing backwards to ever make us believe that's where you're going."

Outspoken Atlanta rapper Killer Mike shared his thoughts on the debate and disagreed with Palin's take on Obama and Biden.

"Mr. Biden debated a woman who got her first passport in 2002 and 'has her eye on Putin' because Russia is across the river from Alaska? Don King has more foreign policy experience than Sarah Palin through the 'Thrilla in Manila' and the fights in Africa. So Maybe if Don King had debated Biden I would been more impressed or interested."

The vice presidential debate comes amid political turmoil as the House of Representatives vote on the proposed $700 billion bailout package to save Wall Street and the nation's financial system.

Senate leaders passed the bill on Wednesday (Oct. 3) with a 74-25 vote, thereby setting the stage for the House vote.

Biden, as well as McCain and Obama, were present Wednesday to cast their vote on the bill, which was filled with tax breaks and other provisions and supported by both Obama and McCain.

"Our country is going through the most difficult time in our history - we can not afford four more years of what we have had," said TV personality Fonzworth Bentley, host of the hit series From G's to Gents. "We can not afford a leader who is mediocre. We have to have excellence in our leaders. Leaders who are respected around the world and who have a sensitivity to the global needs that affect us."

Both candidates heavily touted the merits of their running mates during the debate, which took place at Washington University in St. Louis, Missouri and was moderated by PBS' Gwen Ifill.

"The debate was exactly what I expected," added Mad Hatta of Houston‘s 97.9 The Box. "If you saw the Saturday Night Live Sarah Palin/Katie Couric skit, you know what I mean. After seeing this debate isn't it easy to see who should be America's next President and VP?"

Reviews have been mixed over the performance of the vice presidential candidates, but most pundits agree that Palin’s performance exceeded expectations.

Many doubted whether she could be a worthy running mate for McCain or a qualified successor as a president.

Still, Palin did not convince rapper Immortal Technique, who felt that Biden displayed more knowledge of national and international affairs.

"Joe Bidden had a much more firm grip on foreign policy issues that Palin," Immortal Technique told AllHipHop.com. "She had a very contrived and condescending tone which when mixed with sarcasm played well to disguise her inexperience. Still though, I expected more."

While most people were impressed with Palin, many people were praising Biden’s strategy of concentrating his attack on McCain rather than Palin.

"Sorry Sarah, I will not cast my vote for a feisty old guy and a sharp tongued soccer mom, who uses a fake "Fargo" accent over an Ivy League-educated, world-traveled lawyer, who organized in his community [Obama] and a 30-plus year political veteran with real political know how and relationships [biden]," Killer Mike said.

Obama and McCain will square off with each other again on Tuesday (October 7).

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Thanks for posting that Ted, good read. when I can manage to get past Palin's voice, and odd body language (which is extremely tough) all I see is a talking head, if I were a Republican I'd be truly offended at McCain's pick for VP, this woman is an insult to the intelligence of the American people. I didn't watch the actual debate, just lots of coverage.....wtf was up with the winking?

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Also, I believe Kasparov would better understand his country than we could ever as U.S. citizens.

History doesn't lie.

But oppressive regimes do. Russia's oppressive history includes the strongmen of which you speak. Their power isn't a representation of the people in that country, rather a representation of the corrupt hording power from the people.

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