Bob

when lyricists have trouble getting their albums out, like clipse or fat joe, eventually u realize that the independent scene may be the only option without sacrificing creativity.

Jay-Z, a week after saying Jones wasn't in his league for him to respond, has released "Brooklyn High" that really hits Jim hard, along with Dame. Jones responded real quickly with "We Fly High (Beef Mix)." But get this, Juelz is featured on the Beef Mix. Now I listened to it, and Juelz doesn't go after Jay, infact the beat switched and it basically was a completely different song. But to be associated directly on the same diss record makes me wonder where Juelz stands..... Jay came strong with about 7 different lines, from joking about jones and cam getting jumped at rucker park, to goin after dame, to jones' cd sales, to him owning the game jones pump fakes at... Jones hit about one real strong line at the beginning (playing off the "30 is the new 20" Jay rhymes about in his new cd) the story about jay is here: http://www.sohh.com/articles/article.php/10262 jones' response: http://www.sohh.com/articles/article.php/10271 oh, and of course: the two songs are in the "Media Zone" of http://www.allhiphop.com So my question is, where's Juelz on this? and since Jim was attacking Nas and Jay, do they team up again for a superdiss song as they said they may in that MTV special? (I say team up again since they just leaked "Black Republicans"). And finally, who do you think is winning this beef?

akon- never took the time posted about it in "Ever listen to a song and coincidentally, it describes your mood perfectly....?" Topic thread....

nas and krs I put above him, but the rest hover near, except for guys like dmx andre 3000 and fat joe, i see them nowhere near him. I just don't see those mentions at all. Rakim has arguablely the best flow, but when did he ever talk about anything but himself? Jay-z is cocky as hell but i see so much more substance in what he raps than rakim. mos def and talib are amazing lyricists, and are in the top ten, IMO, but i think to be a great rapper, you need to also appeal somewhat to the masses, something they have a hard time doing. they are some of the best backpack-rappers, but that is one type of rap, not the premier necessarily. 2pac in my opinion could say alot of influential things, but his flow never appealed to me. I also feel his legendary status was sealed because of his death. LL has recycled rhymes and is really hard for me to respect as much now that he's willing to drop his credibility for G-unit. Method man at times shows greatness, but I feel he tries to hard to not break away from one style, set in place by his Wu-tang roots. Redman never really appealed to me. Queen Latifah, maybe its just personal preference, NEVER appealed to me, no matter what she rapped about or to what beat. I never could get into it. (maybe its a lil sexism, because I have yet to find another female rapper I'll listen to either. I'll admit it.) Ice Cube was decent in his last CD, altho I felt he really was pulling the last from his creativity. To me, Snoop is fun with what he says, but limited on the depth that you can read into it. As much as I love Will, to be the best, you have to continually be able to be creative in new ways. I think Will has his niche, but I don't think it surpasses what Jay has been able to do. Also, you will hear a D grade rhyme from Will more frequently than you will from Jay. Slick Rick was an awesome story teller, but I still don't see him over Jay. Ice-T was great during his time, yet I think he pales in comparison to raps from guys like Nas and Jay can still churn out. Wyclef and Kool G, I gotta admit, they slipped my mind, so I can't argue anything there. Also, on the latter end of your list, I am not familar with the talent so I can't judge. Just my opinion. Thought I'd at least try to give some understanding why I still see Jay up there top 3. Hey I feel you bro on where you're coming from, that's nice to know you're familar with most of these mcs, now if you're gonna call LL selling out for working with G-Unit but what about some of the weak rappers that Jay-Z worked with respectfully speaking? Recycled rhymes? What about all the Biggie lines that Jay-Z uses in his songs? Would Jay-Z even be as popular if Biggie was alive? I don't think so, Biggie's another one above Jay-Z of course... Rakim did have some inciteful lyrics on "The 18th Letter" album and besides the way he came into the game with his rhyme patterns elevated many mcs to step their game, think about how mc'ing was before him and then after he came along and you'll see that he made way more impact than Jigga has, rappers today still use lines from "Paid In Full", DMX has a better album catalog than Jay-Z does, basically a lot of solid work he's done since he came in from '98 till now, Fat Joe from the mid-late 90s was a great mc and I think he's going back to that form on his new album coming out tomorrow, I also forgot to mention mcs Busta, Common, Guru, and Q-Tip that're all at least on the same level as Jay-Z, now putting Jay-Z in the top 50 is not a knock, it's just that there are many great mcs that're still living or have lived, I can't put him above all them, many people sleep on them and that's why they put him so high but I'd imagine they wouldn't if they actually heard of these mcs for jay-z, i take his word that its just him paying homage, but its everybody's own interpretation. Biggie for me had a great flow but not too much inspirational in the lyrics. For me, Tupac and Biggie were like two halves to the greatest rapper. One had the deep meaning lyrics, the other a great flow, together woulda been the best hands down. Busta is awesome, and so is common, along with Q-tip definitely. Not too familiar with Guru. But the most important reason for me responding is after going on a FP spree, gotta say he is better than Jay. haha its been awhile for some of his stuff.

i agree jay is easily better. but i think i like his approach, the whole dipset crew is exhausting themselves over this feud, while jay is taking shots as he likes. did anyone even try and listen to camron's latest cd over the summer? it was horrible, the beats were terrible and the lyrics did not stand out. the only positive was juelz on a few tracks.

Ok, so I've been on here almost a month. I'm an undergrad at a major university. And I see this forum does allow to be somewhat off-topic, so bear with me please. Alright, so I get my hands on any new Hip-hop music as quick as possible. Usually I'm hyped, like I was for the Doctor's Advocate, and Kingdom Come. So today I saw among other's, Akon's new album "Konvicted" was in stores, online, w/e. So I play it, and skip the first few songs that leaked months ago. And I stumble on track 6. Never Took the Time. Basically, my first true love broke up with me Monday. I was pessimistic about admitting "love" but with her I knew it, and she also expressed she was in love with me. The thing is, she admitted there was really nothing wrong, it just "wasn't going to last." I'm not gonna go into the delves of it all because every situation has its own scenario, I just won't waste your time. Anyway, my point is, this song hit me EXACTLY the way I feel at this exact moment. Every lyric, everything. So my question is, have you ever COINCIDENTALLY stumbled upon a song that was your exact mood (happy, sad, depressed, mad, agrivated, etc) and if so what was the song? I am just in shock at the coincidental nature of it all. The fact I had no intention of hunting down such a song, it just happened.

both albums are awesome, i've played out game's tho, so its time to start going through fat joe's more lol

hahah they made us wait on that song forevvver, smart haha

definitely agree as to how ridiculous of a flip it is. I think the turning point had to be, at least for people who stay up on interviews, was when he said he didnt do anything for the love of the game but for the money associated with being the best. that really just turned off any interest. i'll admit, he is smart, gathering up all kinds of talent so that even though i may not stand him, if i see freeway is over there, i have a hard time not taking a second to listen.

nas and krs I put above him, but the rest hover near, except for guys like dmx andre 3000 and fat joe, i see them nowhere near him. I just don't see those mentions at all. Rakim has arguablely the best flow, but when did he ever talk about anything but himself? Jay-z is cocky as hell but i see so much more substance in what he raps than rakim. mos def and talib are amazing lyricists, and are in the top ten, IMO, but i think to be a great rapper, you need to also appeal somewhat to the masses, something they have a hard time doing. they are some of the best backpack-rappers, but that is one type of rap, not the premier necessarily. 2pac in my opinion could say alot of influential things, but his flow never appealed to me. I also feel his legendary status was sealed because of his death. LL has recycled rhymes and is really hard for me to respect as much now that he's willing to drop his credibility for G-unit. Method man at times shows greatness, but I feel he tries to hard to not break away from one style, set in place by his Wu-tang roots. Redman never really appealed to me. Queen Latifah, maybe its just personal preference, NEVER appealed to me, no matter what she rapped about or to what beat. I never could get into it. (maybe its a lil sexism, because I have yet to find another female rapper I'll listen to either. I'll admit it.) Ice Cube was decent in his last CD, altho I felt he really was pulling the last from his creativity. To me, Snoop is fun with what he says, but limited on the depth that you can read into it. As much as I love Will, to be the best, you have to continually be able to be creative in new ways. I think Will has his niche, but I don't think it surpasses what Jay has been able to do. Also, you will hear a D grade rhyme from Will more frequently than you will from Jay. Slick Rick was an awesome story teller, but I still don't see him over Jay. Ice-T was great during his time, yet I think he pales in comparison to raps from guys like Nas and Jay can still churn out. Wyclef and Kool G, I gotta admit, they slipped my mind, so I can't argue anything there. Also, on the latter end of your list, I am not familar with the talent so I can't judge. Just my opinion. Thought I'd at least try to give some understanding why I still see Jay up there top 3.

i was soooo disappointed with todd smith soooo disappointed i believe it's not even half the album kingdom come is i think LL realized that the last album was not good

thank you thank you thank you!!!

in my opinion, he is honestly one of the best, one of the top three of all time... his flow is sick, and his use of metaphors is uncomparable

I'll say it, he's a bad rapper. listen to minority report and then say that

On Jay-z's new album "Kingdom Come," his one track "Dig a Hole" featuring Sterling Simms is in the same light as "Takeover" was. Here are some excerpts: "N****'s like Hov why don't you get at ol' boy? Why kill a puppet and leave Geppetto alive? Why not wait to catch em all together, it's where you dig one big hole, one time." "How's n****'s dissing me, I made it possible for n****'s to make history, how is this possible? please explain this sh*t to me how is it logical? Have we forgotten our history? Let's open our bibles It's like the disciples dissing Jesus becoming his rivals shunning the one thing they owe they life to" "I keep my enemies close I give em enough rope they put themselves in the air i just kick away the chair" "The only time you went plat my chain was on your neck that's a natural fact so i'm praying that it spills outside of the booth that's when y'all n****'s outside of your truth outside of your league, that's not what you do n****'s throwin roc signs outside of your coop look at hov like he done something wrong to em cause hes all to him he just took what belonged to him" its a powerful track "dig a hole, go ahead, bury yourself"

the beats were ten times sicker than those of the black album. dre really pulled it off on the tracks he produced. lyrically, it was good. not great, but good.

its just like why mobb deep signed with 50...they want a piece of the cake he's eating...but 50 is just now starting to lose the support

ur right, absolutely hilarious

definitely disagree that its my main reason for why i like rap but still interesting

awesome stuff

kanye needs to grow up first i.e. MTV Europe Awards

hahah realllllly interesting i don't blame ice-t for being jealous

so if jay-z and nas don't eventually do a song together.... hey nas, you know who to call

in a week, add game to #1

THIS IS REALLY HARD TO BELIEVE...wait no, it's ron artest hahah